Author Topic: Permatex Sleeve Retainer, is the 'activator' required?  (Read 1680 times)

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cjshaker

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Permatex Sleeve Retainer, is the 'activator' required?
« on: October 20, 2020, 08:00:59 AM »
I got a bottle of Permatex Sleeve Retainer at work to attempt to reuse a gearbox that has some slight damage to its output shaft. The shaft was damaged when the pulley came loose and slightly grooved the shaft (this is on an $18k mower). The pulley uses a taper-lock hub, so it needs good contact with the shaft, so I decided to give this a try in saving an expensive gearbox. When reading the directions, first thing stated is "Clean and dry parts using Permatex Surface Prep activator".

Is the "Surface Prep activator" a requirement for the sealer to harden? I've never used the sleeve repair liquid before. Permatex Red and Blue do not require an activator, so I'm wondering if this is just a selling point for another product, or if it's actually required. Does anyone have any experience with this stuff?
Doug Smith


'69 R-code Mach 1, '65 427 MR, 2x4, 4-spd, 4.30 Locker
1965 Galaxie 390
1970 F-350 390

shady

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Re: Permatex Sleeve Retainer, is the 'activator' required?
« Reply #1 on: October 20, 2020, 09:27:43 AM »
what's another 20 bucks on a 18k mower. I've always had good luck with Permatex products. I would use it, as preparation is always the key to good results.
What goes fast doesn't go fast long'
What goes fast takes your money with it.
So I'm slow & broke, what went wrong?

cjshaker

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Re: Permatex Sleeve Retainer, is the 'activator' required?
« Reply #2 on: October 20, 2020, 10:15:13 AM »
According to Permatexs' website, it's basically just a cleaning agent, but says it speeds up curing by 50%, although I don't know how since it seems like it's just a surface prep (cleaner). I've never used the stuff on Red or Blue threadlocker, and they have always worked fine.

I asked because it's another 2 day delay for me to attempt the repair, and we need all the mowers right now. You think $18k is a lot? I also have an $80k mower, with a 4 cylinder inter-cooled turbo diesel, 4 wheel drive and cruise control  ::)
Doug Smith


'69 R-code Mach 1, '65 427 MR, 2x4, 4-spd, 4.30 Locker
1965 Galaxie 390
1970 F-350 390

HarleyJack17

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Re: Permatex Sleeve Retainer, is the 'activator' required?
« Reply #3 on: October 20, 2020, 02:38:48 PM »
Never used it but it will likely be fine to do what you want. You may order it jic when it goes back in the field, if it acts up to try as a last resort.  If you make it through the season or project or what have you it might be wise to improve upon the design maybe if you can. You say taper lock but certainly something retains it...guessing a bolt. My guess is you mean there is no key way to drive the pulley....not a fan of that myself and hence the "improving" comment if it can be done.

Are we talking an 80K lawn mower? Never heard of such a thing....tractors yes, but it ain't no Grass Hopper if it is 80K, is it?

cjshaker

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Re: Permatex Sleeve Retainer, is the 'activator' required?
« Reply #4 on: October 20, 2020, 03:11:50 PM »
Never used it but it will likely be fine to do what you want. You may order it jic when it goes back in the field, if it acts up to try as a last resort.  If you make it through the season or project or what have you it might be wise to improve upon the design maybe if you can. You say taper lock but certainly something retains it...guessing a bolt. My guess is you mean there is no key way to drive the pulley....not a fan of that myself and hence the "improving" comment if it can be done.

Are we talking an 80K lawn mower? Never heard of such a thing....tractors yes, but it ain't no Grass Hopper if it is 80K, is it?

It uses a keyway, but a taper-lock hub has a split in it, and 2 set screws that squeeze the hub against the tapered shaft. No bolt to hold it in place. It's a fairly common design on certain equipment, although not generally something used on mowers and such. There's no way to improve the design without way too much time and effort. It would be cheaper to just replace the $700 gearbox. It drives 2 belts, so I have to use this hub/pulley arrangement. My "last ditch effort" would be to weld the hub/pulley/shaft up as one piece. Not a great way of doing it, but would likely last the lifetime of the mower, if it comes to that.

Yes, that's $80,000 for a mower. It has an 18' cutting path. You can also get an optional cab with heat and AC, which pushes the price upwards of $100,000. Our last one had those options, but they cheaped out on this one...lol
Doug Smith


'69 R-code Mach 1, '65 427 MR, 2x4, 4-spd, 4.30 Locker
1965 Galaxie 390
1970 F-350 390

RustyCrankshaft

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Re: Permatex Sleeve Retainer, is the 'activator' required?
« Reply #5 on: October 20, 2020, 06:36:22 PM »
No, you do not need the activator for it work. It is mostly a final clean solvent and does have some accelerator in it to make it set up faster. If you aren't in a hurry just clean it real good with whatever residue free solvent you have (good brake clean or alcohol, etc) and the green goo will set up fine.

I have an old can of activator I can send you if you want it. They threw out a case of it at work and I grabbed it a while ago. Stuff has a pull date, but seems to work just fine still.

KMcCullah

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Re: Permatex Sleeve Retainer, is the 'activator' required?
« Reply #6 on: October 21, 2020, 07:43:56 AM »
I got a bottle of Permatex Sleeve Retainer at work to attempt to reuse a gearbox that has some slight damage to its output shaft. The shaft was damaged when the pulley came loose and slightly grooved the shaft (this is on an $18k mower). The pulley uses a taper-lock hub, so it needs good contact with the shaft, so I decided to give this a try in saving an expensive gearbox. When reading the directions, first thing stated is "Clean and dry parts using Permatex Surface Prep activator".

Is the "Surface Prep activator" a requirement for the sealer to harden? I've never used the sleeve repair liquid before. Permatex Red and Blue do not require an activator, so I'm wondering if this is just a selling point for another product, or if it's actually required. Does anyone have any experience with this stuff?

I've used Permatex sleeve retainer before. With and without the activator. The end result was the same. Just took longer to cure without. I think if getting the surfaces prepped properly is an issue, the activator helps.  Tight spots/field repairs etc. 680 Loctite is my go to these days. With 80 grit surface prep.

Do you have room to convert to a QD bushing/pulley instead of a taper lock? Not a fan of taper locks. Darn things always seem to come loose when horsed on.
Kevin McCullah


cjshaker

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Re: Permatex Sleeve Retainer, is the 'activator' required?
« Reply #7 on: October 21, 2020, 08:07:47 AM »
Thanks for the feedback. I went ahead and ordered some of the prep/activator yesterday, just in the hopes of giving this every chance of working good.

Kevin, there's no room for a QD bushing. As it is, there is roughly .125-.250 space between the hub/pulley and a drive pulley that sits right below it. I suppose that's why they went with the taper lock. And yes, I don't like them either. I've had previous issues with them, but a new bushing always fixed them. This one damaged the shaft a little when it came lose (not a previously repaired one), not bad, but enough that it affects total surface area contact, which the taper lock relies on. With todays electric clutches that hit the shaft/box/belts like a sledgehammer when engaged, it puts a hell of an instantaneous load on everything for a split second. That's where the problem lies, in my opinion.
Doug Smith


'69 R-code Mach 1, '65 427 MR, 2x4, 4-spd, 4.30 Locker
1965 Galaxie 390
1970 F-350 390