Author Topic: cooling question  (Read 9684 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

sixty9cobra

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 274
    • View Profile
Re: cooling question
« Reply #15 on: June 28, 2020, 08:33:09 PM »
Stangman would you mind sending me some pics of your setup? Or could I come and look your not that far away? Sorry I forgot your name not one of my finer points.

66FAIRLANE

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 558
  • Andy
    • View Profile
Re: cooling question
« Reply #16 on: June 28, 2020, 09:00:17 PM »
The old rule of thumb is 'overheat at idle = airflow'...'overheat at speed = radiator'

Pretty accurate except I have seen some electric fan shrouds 'dam up' the airflow at speed causing overheating. I have tried numerous everything over years. For me can't beat a big factory paddle fan, factory shroud & big radiator.

My427stang

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3918
    • View Profile
Re: cooling question
« Reply #17 on: June 29, 2020, 06:46:59 AM »
I run a crossflow in mine and it stays cool even with AC.  However, I just bought the crossflow because the car wasn't an FE car and it was a cheap, effective option.  Generally a good 24 inch CJ radiator works super and no need to cut up a car yet (although you make a lot of power, you may need to, just trying to troubleshoot before you cut)

I would ignore the engine itself for now.   

1 - Any changes to pulleys with this engine?  Specifically pulley ratio.
2 - Did you run those fans with the old engine?
3 - Does it cool down when it idles again (I think the answer was yes)
4 - I think you are saying that idling in the driveway it stays nice and cool?  Is that indefinitely?
5 - What does it do on the highway?
6 - Anything blocking the exit below the front of the engine?  (New pumps, gadgets, cool cans, etc)

To me, it sounds like something is fighting the airflow through the radiator while driving.  Did you potentially rewire and have the fans blowing toward the radiator?  Could the fans be blocking airflow? (Most aftermarket have rubber flaps to allow airflow moving)
---------------------------------
Ross
Bullock's Power Service, LLC
- 70 Fastback Mustang, 489 cid FE, Victor, SEFI, Erson SFT cam, TKO-600 5 speed, 4.11 9 inch.
- 71 F100 shortbed 4x4, 461 cid FE, headers, Victor Pro-flo EFI, Comp Custom HFT cam, 3.50 9 inch

sixty9cobra

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 274
    • View Profile
Re: cooling question
« Reply #18 on: June 29, 2020, 08:45:20 AM »
Hi Ross
  1, No
  2. no it ran warm always over the thermostat by 20 degrees.
  3.yes it will come back to 180 when it idles at a light on a hot day say 90 or hotter 190
  4. Yes
  5. On the highway 210 215 forever unless its below 80 degrees. 50 degrees or less 180 or less. I dont do much highway driving its just a toy to and from cars and coffee or a quick race.


I even bought this to force the air thru the radiator.

https://www.jegs.com/i/Undercover+Innovations/930/69MU-00B/10002/-1?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI0M2YjJSn6gIVFKSzCh12rgKwEAQYAiABEgIePfD_BwE


fryedaddy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1249
    • View Profile
Re: cooling question
« Reply #19 on: June 29, 2020, 09:05:20 AM »
i did not read everyone's reply,but it might be the same thing happened to me.my 428 at idle ran cool but when you start giving it throttle it would start to heat up.i tried everything new stats,shroud,etc.i also have a 4 row champion rad and a eld alu water pump.i was going down the highway and watched the temp rise above 210.the faster i went it kept heating up.i got out and parked on the side of the road and popped the hood.i revved the engine with my hand at the carb.i noticed something moving.i looked down and revved it again and i saw my bottom rad hose sucking shut every time i revved it.i went and got a bottom hose with wire wound up in it.it dont suck shut any more and it never gets above 185-190 even at red lights and heavy traffic.    p.s.i like my champion radiator.i know they are cheaper than the big brand names.i have run it for 4 years now and it has been flawless.i personally dont think your rad is the problem.warm your car up and take it for a ride and when it starts over heating pull over pop the hood and watch that bottom hose while you rev it.im hoping this is your problem.it is a cheap easy fix to buy a new bottom hose
« Last Edit: June 29, 2020, 09:18:02 AM by fryedaddy »
1966 comet caliente 428 4 speed owned since 1983                                                 1973 f250 ranger xlt 360 4 speed papaw bought new

My427stang

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3918
    • View Profile
Re: cooling question
« Reply #20 on: June 29, 2020, 09:10:45 AM »
So, here is my opinion, I think that you don't have an issue :)  However, I like what you are trying to do. Now the post above is 100% valid, if you are collapsing a hose, that'd do it.

However, 210-215 cruising that recovers quickly is pretty darn good. I would even say that depending on the gauge, sender, and voltage the car is running, that there is a variance there, and you could even be cooler than the gauge shows

Is it an electrical gauge or mechanical?  If electrical, would ask one of the engineers what an electric thermocouple does with extra voltage, would the variance show higher on the gauge or lower?

Another thing you could do is gut the thermostat or run a purpose-built restrictor of about the same size.  it would take out the "opening temp" of the thermostat out of the equation.  However, I would not run without one, as an engine likes some restriction to force water everywhere inside the block and minimize hot spots and cavitation.

However, I can't see a reason to spend more money, if you really wanted to, make some rubber flaps in the shroud for air to go around the fans at speed, but you'd need quite a bit of area to make a difference I think.  Maybe not though if in the right place, like the 4 corners

---------------------------------
Ross
Bullock's Power Service, LLC
- 70 Fastback Mustang, 489 cid FE, Victor, SEFI, Erson SFT cam, TKO-600 5 speed, 4.11 9 inch.
- 71 F100 shortbed 4x4, 461 cid FE, headers, Victor Pro-flo EFI, Comp Custom HFT cam, 3.50 9 inch

driveamerican

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 72
    • View Profile
Re: cooling question
« Reply #21 on: June 29, 2020, 09:31:49 AM »
+1 for lower hose sucking shut.

Stangman

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1683
    • View Profile
Re: cooling question
« Reply #22 on: June 29, 2020, 12:47:09 PM »
Harry whatever is best for you I could send pics or 32 Plymouth rd massapequa 516 209-7874. But boy wouldn’t it be great if it’s the lower hose. By the way Harry what temp sender do you have in the car meaning what temp does it go on and off.
Joe Pisanello
« Last Edit: June 29, 2020, 12:50:20 PM by Stangman »

Falcon67

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2151
    • View Profile
    • Kelly's Hot Rod Page
Re: cooling question
« Reply #23 on: June 29, 2020, 01:29:39 PM »
"Champion 4 row radiator, Focus electric fans. I have a 160 stat, The car stays at 180 idleing all day if the temp is above 80 degrees outside. As soon as the motor goes above 2000 rpm the temp rises as high as 210 going 70 mph in overdrive. "

Your problems is too cold a thermostat and too thick a radiator.  Also, I'll bet that rad uses close fin spacing, which is even worse.  You are not moving air though that core.  Been there, tossed that.  A dual 1" core aluminum radiator with more open fin spacing running at 200F will run rings around an old thick copper/brass unit.  The water needs to be HOT in the engine to do proper heat exchange.  The more temperature differential, the better a radiator works.  This is X2 for aluminum.  Besides, if you were to get it to run all the time at 160 your engine wear goes up and your oil pollutes and doesn't clean up as well - adding to the wear problem. 

fryedaddy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1249
    • View Profile
Re: cooling question
« Reply #24 on: June 29, 2020, 03:13:16 PM »
I run a champion 4 core and it heats up in less than 5 minutes.thermostat kicks in and it goes to 180.rad stays too hot to touch.i dont think that is his problem.they are rated to 750 horse so on a 600+ engine i think its fine. my stock copper rad would go over 210 at red lights and would not cool down till i drove a mile or two.,but the champion only goes to 190 or so at red lights and cools back to 180 after you get going again.im still hoping its that bottom hose collapsing. that is exactly what mine was doing.
« Last Edit: June 29, 2020, 03:25:07 PM by fryedaddy »
1966 comet caliente 428 4 speed owned since 1983                                                 1973 f250 ranger xlt 360 4 speed papaw bought new

sixty9cobra

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 274
    • View Profile
Re: cooling question
« Reply #25 on: June 29, 2020, 03:26:14 PM »
I just went out and squeezed my bottom hose it has no spring in it. That could be the problem. Ross its a sun electric guage. Fans come on at 180. I had no thermostat 160 i80 195 same result. Joe send me pics if you can hlhacker@optonline.net. Let me be clear it doesn't overheat just runs HOT it never puked antifreeze.

fryedaddy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1249
    • View Profile
Re: cooling question
« Reply #26 on: June 29, 2020, 03:38:00 PM »
even when the bottom hose sucked shut,some coolant was still flowing,it was just restricted severely. mine didnt over heat and puke either it just ran hot while driving at speed. im lucky i spotted this. you have to wait till it heats up good then rev it up while watching the hose.
1966 comet caliente 428 4 speed owned since 1983                                                 1973 f250 ranger xlt 360 4 speed papaw bought new

My427stang

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3918
    • View Profile
Re: cooling question
« Reply #27 on: June 29, 2020, 05:36:12 PM »
I just went out and squeezed my bottom hose it has no spring in it. That could be the problem. Ross its a sun electric guage. Fans come on at 180. I had no thermostat 160 i80 195 same result. Joe send me pics if you can hlhacker@optonline.net. Let me be clear it doesn't overheat just runs HOT it never puked antifreeze.

Worth checking that bottom hose, but just to be clear, wasn't talking about no thermostat, I was talking about a restrictor.  However, hard to tell how hot that really is, 210-215 isn't HOT, it's just warm normal, and again 13V - 14.8V system, not sure how more current affects a sender.  In the end though, I am like you, I like them cooler than that, but it isn't even hotting boiling point under pressure. So don't worry too badly
---------------------------------
Ross
Bullock's Power Service, LLC
- 70 Fastback Mustang, 489 cid FE, Victor, SEFI, Erson SFT cam, TKO-600 5 speed, 4.11 9 inch.
- 71 F100 shortbed 4x4, 461 cid FE, headers, Victor Pro-flo EFI, Comp Custom HFT cam, 3.50 9 inch

Cyclone03

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 338
    • View Profile
Re: cooling question
« Reply #28 on: June 29, 2020, 07:03:18 PM »
I ran that same fan set up, the air can not flow through the two fan openings. The air is damming up inside the shroud. Read my post above, been there done that. You need some type of vents that open at speed.
Lance H

fryedaddy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1249
    • View Profile
Re: cooling question
« Reply #29 on: June 29, 2020, 10:14:11 PM »
you might try a clutch fan,thats what im using with the 4 row champion,and im not even using a shroud,just the fan and radiator
1966 comet caliente 428 4 speed owned since 1983                                                 1973 f250 ranger xlt 360 4 speed papaw bought new