Author Topic: out of the box Trick Flow heads vs. ported Edelbrocks?  (Read 14620 times)

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plovett

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Re: out of the box Trick Flow heads vs. ported Edelbrocks?
« Reply #30 on: April 05, 2020, 03:20:16 PM »
If you already have the Edelbrocks, and are thinking of buying the other heads, you might consider saving your money and just use the Eds in a street/strip car like your Cougar.  You have to have a full cage to go quicker than 10 seconds in the quarter which is kind of a pain.   You should be able to have a streetable car in the low 10s with the Eds.  I guess it's another story if you want to go quicker.

My street car with POS Ed heads that a lot of people seem to hate should run 10.4-10.5 seconds in good air at a sea level track from what it ran at Spokane on it's one time to the track.  That's with the FPA corks and mufflers.  REF headers would probably knock a tenth or two off that.  They wouldn't fit with the kicked out oil pan so gave them away.

Yes,  I think I will keep my Edelbricks.  :)  I was running 11.40's on sticky street tires (but still spinning) with my 428.  If I could run high 10's with the new bigger engine, with less rpm and gear, I'd be super happy.  I won't likely put a cage in it, as it is a street car first.

We'll see how much bigger valves, opened throat, and thinner stems will gain.  I am hoping for 10, 15, 20 cfm????

paulie

By the way, I found the flow sheet for my 1x4 BT intake manifold.  The average cfm per runner was over 400 cfm.  The Tunnel Wedge was 474+ cfm.   Thanks, Joe! 

paulie

blykins

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Re: out of the box Trick Flow heads vs. ported Edelbrocks?
« Reply #31 on: April 05, 2020, 03:57:58 PM »
If you already have the Edelbrocks, and are thinking of buying the other heads, you might consider saving your money and just use the Eds in a street/strip car like your Cougar.  You have to have a full cage to go quicker than 10 seconds in the quarter which is kind of a pain.   You should be able to have a streetable car in the low 10s with the Eds.  I guess it's another story if you want to go quicker.

My street car with POS Ed heads that a lot of people seem to hate should run 10.4-10.5 seconds in good air at a sea level track from what it ran at Spokane on it's one time to the track.  That's with the FPA corks and mufflers.  REF headers would probably knock a tenth or two off that.  They wouldn't fit with the kicked out oil pan so gave them away.

Yes,  I think I will keep my Edelbricks.  :)  I was running 11.40's on sticky street tires (but still spinning) with my 428.  If I could run high 10's with the new bigger engine, with less rpm and gear, I'd be super happy.  I won't likely put a cage in it, as it is a street car first.

We'll see how much bigger valves, opened throat, and thinner stems will gain.  I am hoping for 10, 15, 20 cfm????

paulie

By the way, I found the flow sheet for my 1x4 BT intake manifold.  The average cfm per runner was over 400 cfm.  The Tunnel Wedge was 474+ cfm.   Thanks, Joe! 

paulie

Tall order.  You're needing to gain roughly 100 hp with less rpm and you're hindering the car with less gear as well.
Brent Lykins
Lykins Motorsports
Custom FE Street, Drag Race, Road Race, and Pulling Truck Engines
Custom Roller & Flat Tappet Camshafts
www.lykinsmotorsports.com
brent@lykinsmotorsports.com
www.customfordcams.com
502-759-1431
Instagram:  brentlykinsmotorsports
YouTube:  Lykins Motorsports

plovett

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Re: out of the box Trick Flow heads vs. ported Edelbrocks?
« Reply #32 on: April 05, 2020, 05:44:24 PM »
If you already have the Edelbrocks, and are thinking of buying the other heads, you might consider saving your money and just use the Eds in a street/strip car like your Cougar.  You have to have a full cage to go quicker than 10 seconds in the quarter which is kind of a pain.   You should be able to have a streetable car in the low 10s with the Eds.  I guess it's another story if you want to go quicker.

My street car with POS Ed heads that a lot of people seem to hate should run 10.4-10.5 seconds in good air at a sea level track from what it ran at Spokane on it's one time to the track.  That's with the FPA corks and mufflers.  REF headers would probably knock a tenth or two off that.  They wouldn't fit with the kicked out oil pan so gave them away.

Yes,  I think I will keep my Edelbricks.  :)  I was running 11.40's on sticky street tires (but still spinning) with my 428.  If I could run high 10's with the new bigger engine, with less rpm and gear, I'd be super happy.  I won't likely put a cage in it, as it is a street car first.

We'll see how much bigger valves, opened throat, and thinner stems will gain.  I am hoping for 10, 15, 20 cfm????

paulie

By the way, I found the flow sheet for my 1x4 BT intake manifold.  The average cfm per runner was over 400 cfm.  The Tunnel Wedge was 474+ cfm.   Thanks, Joe! 

paulie

Tall order.  You're needing to gain roughly 100 hp with less rpm and you're hindering the car with less gear as well.

Could be. It was running in the 122-125 mph range before.   I plan to add 40+ cubes, increase the airflow a tad, but decrease the gearing, rpm, and stall speed. From 4.11 to 3.64, and rpm from 6900 to 6500 or so, and stall from 3600 to 3000 or so.  Regarding the gearing, you obviously have not street raced.  We generally try to kill low rpm power to get it to hook, on street tires, on street surfaces.  That is unless it is a "small" small block or less than 8 cylinders.

paulie

blykins

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Re: out of the box Trick Flow heads vs. ported Edelbrocks?
« Reply #33 on: April 05, 2020, 05:56:47 PM »
If you already have the Edelbrocks, and are thinking of buying the other heads, you might consider saving your money and just use the Eds in a street/strip car like your Cougar.  You have to have a full cage to go quicker than 10 seconds in the quarter which is kind of a pain.   You should be able to have a streetable car in the low 10s with the Eds.  I guess it's another story if you want to go quicker.

My street car with POS Ed heads that a lot of people seem to hate should run 10.4-10.5 seconds in good air at a sea level track from what it ran at Spokane on it's one time to the track.  That's with the FPA corks and mufflers.  REF headers would probably knock a tenth or two off that.  They wouldn't fit with the kicked out oil pan so gave them away.

Yes,  I think I will keep my Edelbricks.  :)  I was running 11.40's on sticky street tires (but still spinning) with my 428.  If I could run high 10's with the new bigger engine, with less rpm and gear, I'd be super happy.  I won't likely put a cage in it, as it is a street car first.

We'll see how much bigger valves, opened throat, and thinner stems will gain.  I am hoping for 10, 15, 20 cfm????

paulie

By the way, I found the flow sheet for my 1x4 BT intake manifold.  The average cfm per runner was over 400 cfm.  The Tunnel Wedge was 474+ cfm.   Thanks, Joe! 

paulie

Tall order.  You're needing to gain roughly 100 hp with less rpm and you're hindering the car with less gear as well.

Could be. It was running in the 122-125 mph range before.   I plan to add 40+ cubes, increase the airflow a tad, but decrease the gearing, rpm, and stall speed. From 4.11 to 3.64, and rpm from 6900 to 6500 or so, and stall from 3600 to 3000 or so.  Regarding the gearing, you obviously have not street raced.  We generally try to kill low rpm power to get it to hook, on street tires, on street surfaces.  That is unless it is a "small" small block or less than 8 cylinders.

paulie

I obviously have not street raced?   LOL that's funny....  Everything I have street raced has been a V8 and had 4.10 gears or deeper.  I had no trouble with street tires or drag radials.  Cars have gas pedals.  They're easy to use. 

Unfortunately, I don't think you're gonna end up too far past where you are right now. 
Brent Lykins
Lykins Motorsports
Custom FE Street, Drag Race, Road Race, and Pulling Truck Engines
Custom Roller & Flat Tappet Camshafts
www.lykinsmotorsports.com
brent@lykinsmotorsports.com
www.customfordcams.com
502-759-1431
Instagram:  brentlykinsmotorsports
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My427stang

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Re: out of the box Trick Flow heads vs. ported Edelbrocks?
« Reply #34 on: April 05, 2020, 05:59:18 PM »
Paulie,
I think you have competing goals. Running even high 10s with a 3.64 will take some serious torque. Nitrous or blower in my opinion, especially if you are going to try to come out soft and catch up on the big end. I would look close at the desired end use and if it is a street racer, dump the tall gear
---------------------------------
Ross
Bullock's Power Service, LLC
- 70 Fastback Mustang, 489 cid FE, Victor, SEFI, Erson SFT cam, TKO-600 5 speed, 4.11 9 inch.
- 71 F100 shortbed 4x4, 461 cid FE, headers, Victor Pro-flo EFI, Comp Custom HFT cam, 3.50 9 inch

plovett

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Re: out of the box Trick Flow heads vs. ported Edelbrocks?
« Reply #35 on: April 05, 2020, 05:59:48 PM »
If you already have the Edelbrocks, and are thinking of buying the other heads, you might consider saving your money and just use the Eds in a street/strip car like your Cougar.  You have to have a full cage to go quicker than 10 seconds in the quarter which is kind of a pain.   You should be able to have a streetable car in the low 10s with the Eds.  I guess it's another story if you want to go quicker.

My street car with POS Ed heads that a lot of people seem to hate should run 10.4-10.5 seconds in good air at a sea level track from what it ran at Spokane on it's one time to the track.  That's with the FPA corks and mufflers.  REF headers would probably knock a tenth or two off that.  They wouldn't fit with the kicked out oil pan so gave them away.

Yes,  I think I will keep my Edelbricks.  :)  I was running 11.40's on sticky street tires (but still spinning) with my 428.  If I could run high 10's with the new bigger engine, with less rpm and gear, I'd be super happy.  I won't likely put a cage in it, as it is a street car first.

We'll see how much bigger valves, opened throat, and thinner stems will gain.  I am hoping for 10, 15, 20 cfm????

paulie

By the way, I found the flow sheet for my 1x4 BT intake manifold.  The average cfm per runner was over 400 cfm.  The Tunnel Wedge was 474+ cfm.   Thanks, Joe! 

paulie

Tall order.  You're needing to gain roughly 100 hp with less rpm and you're hindering the car with less gear as well.

Could be. It was running in the 122-125 mph range before.   I plan to add 40+ cubes, increase the airflow a tad, but decrease the gearing, rpm, and stall speed. From 4.11 to 3.64, and rpm from 6900 to 6500 or so, and stall from 3600 to 3000 or so.  Regarding the gearing, you obviously have not street raced.  We generally try to kill low rpm power to get it to hook, on street tires, on street surfaces.  That is unless it is a "small" small block or less than 8 cylinders.

paulie

I obviously have not street raced?   LOL that's funny....  Everything I have street raced has been a V8 and had 4.10 gears or deeper.  I had no trouble with street tires or drag radials.  Cars have gas pedals.  They're easy to use. 

Unfortunately, I don't think you're gonna end up too far past where you are right now.

No worries.  I am mainly trying to get the same or better performance with less rpm and less gear.  Time will tell. You keep on street racing.  :)

blykins

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Re: out of the box Trick Flow heads vs. ported Edelbrocks?
« Reply #36 on: April 05, 2020, 06:06:57 PM »
If you already have the Edelbrocks, and are thinking of buying the other heads, you might consider saving your money and just use the Eds in a street/strip car like your Cougar.  You have to have a full cage to go quicker than 10 seconds in the quarter which is kind of a pain.   You should be able to have a streetable car in the low 10s with the Eds.  I guess it's another story if you want to go quicker.

My street car with POS Ed heads that a lot of people seem to hate should run 10.4-10.5 seconds in good air at a sea level track from what it ran at Spokane on it's one time to the track.  That's with the FPA corks and mufflers.  REF headers would probably knock a tenth or two off that.  They wouldn't fit with the kicked out oil pan so gave them away.

Yes,  I think I will keep my Edelbricks.  :)  I was running 11.40's on sticky street tires (but still spinning) with my 428.  If I could run high 10's with the new bigger engine, with less rpm and gear, I'd be super happy.  I won't likely put a cage in it, as it is a street car first.

We'll see how much bigger valves, opened throat, and thinner stems will gain.  I am hoping for 10, 15, 20 cfm????

paulie

By the way, I found the flow sheet for my 1x4 BT intake manifold.  The average cfm per runner was over 400 cfm.  The Tunnel Wedge was 474+ cfm.   Thanks, Joe! 

paulie

Tall order.  You're needing to gain roughly 100 hp with less rpm and you're hindering the car with less gear as well.

Could be. It was running in the 122-125 mph range before.   I plan to add 40+ cubes, increase the airflow a tad, but decrease the gearing, rpm, and stall speed. From 4.11 to 3.64, and rpm from 6900 to 6500 or so, and stall from 3600 to 3000 or so.  Regarding the gearing, you obviously have not street raced.  We generally try to kill low rpm power to get it to hook, on street tires, on street surfaces.  That is unless it is a "small" small block or less than 8 cylinders.

paulie

I obviously have not street raced?   LOL that's funny....  Everything I have street raced has been a V8 and had 4.10 gears or deeper.  I had no trouble with street tires or drag radials.  Cars have gas pedals.  They're easy to use. 

Unfortunately, I don't think you're gonna end up too far past where you are right now.

No worries.  I am mainly trying to get the same or better performance with less rpm and less gear.  Time will tell. You keep on street racing.  :)

Good luck!
Brent Lykins
Lykins Motorsports
Custom FE Street, Drag Race, Road Race, and Pulling Truck Engines
Custom Roller & Flat Tappet Camshafts
www.lykinsmotorsports.com
brent@lykinsmotorsports.com
www.customfordcams.com
502-759-1431
Instagram:  brentlykinsmotorsports
YouTube:  Lykins Motorsports

plovett

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Re: out of the box Trick Flow heads vs. ported Edelbrocks?
« Reply #37 on: April 05, 2020, 06:08:06 PM »
Paulie,
I think you have competing goals. Running even high 10s with a 3.64 will take some serious torque. Nitrous or blower in my opinion, especially if you are going to try to come out soft and catch up on the big end. I would look close at the desired end use and if it is a street racer, dump the tall gear

If I had a 4.11 gear with 27" tires I would run out of rpm with a 3 speed with my new combination. I am almost at that point with my little 428. I HAVE to lower (numerically) the gearing.  Just a question of how much. 

Yes, of course I have competing goals.  That is what makes it interesting.  I have never had a combination with too little gear, just too much.   Remember my experiment with the low ratio gear set?  It was fun, but no bueno for actually getting good ET's.  And yes, I can work the throttle, but physics is physics.  Will I gain another 4-5 tenths?  Maybe, maybe not.  But at least it's real.   

paulie
« Last Edit: April 05, 2020, 06:10:23 PM by plovett »

My427stang

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Re: out of the box Trick Flow heads vs. ported Edelbrocks?
« Reply #38 on: April 05, 2020, 06:25:58 PM »
Well Paulie, always good to try something,and it’s your car and bank account. Just remember you are trying to make up 11.4% of torque multiplication from the gear change alone, 60 ft lbs or so, and even more when you take out converter, just  to break even

With a cross bolted 427 based stroker with a ported TW, I would be letting it eat if you are running out of rpm with the current motor, that is if being real is street racing


---------------------------------
Ross
Bullock's Power Service, LLC
- 70 Fastback Mustang, 489 cid FE, Victor, SEFI, Erson SFT cam, TKO-600 5 speed, 4.11 9 inch.
- 71 F100 shortbed 4x4, 461 cid FE, headers, Victor Pro-flo EFI, Comp Custom HFT cam, 3.50 9 inch

plovett

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Re: out of the box Trick Flow heads vs. ported Edelbrocks?
« Reply #39 on: April 05, 2020, 07:56:24 PM »
Well Paulie, always good to try something,and it’s your car and bank account. Just remember you are trying to make up 11.4% of torque multiplication from the gear change alone, 60 ft lbs or so, and even more when you take out converter, just  to break even

With a cross bolted 427 based stroker with a ported TW, I would be letting it eat if you are running out of rpm with the current motor, that is if being real is street racing

I am not trying to make up for 11.4% of torque multiplication from the gear change alone.  Where do you get that idea? 

My427stang

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Re: out of the box Trick Flow heads vs. ported Edelbrocks?
« Reply #40 on: April 05, 2020, 08:08:45 PM »
Paulie, I am not fighting with you but you seem to have an edge on today. Of course you are, the gear change does it...the gear change gives up 11% of torque multiplication, pure ratio comparison, and a converter pre-stall provides even more and loses more If tighter.  Ignore the converter for the percentage discussion, when you swap the gears for the trap rpm, you trade off that 11%

That has to come back from somewhere, the gears are the COST not what you are trying to do

« Last Edit: April 05, 2020, 09:24:54 PM by My427stang »
---------------------------------
Ross
Bullock's Power Service, LLC
- 70 Fastback Mustang, 489 cid FE, Victor, SEFI, Erson SFT cam, TKO-600 5 speed, 4.11 9 inch.
- 71 F100 shortbed 4x4, 461 cid FE, headers, Victor Pro-flo EFI, Comp Custom HFT cam, 3.50 9 inch

afret

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Re: out of the box Trick Flow heads vs. ported Edelbrocks?
« Reply #41 on: April 05, 2020, 08:21:11 PM »
With a trap speed of 125, if you optimize it for the track, your car should be deep into the 10s.  I don't street race but I would think you would lose a lot of time from a non prepped surface especially with drag radials. 

After the trip to the track, I put in a new center section going from 4.30s to 3.89s to stay off the limiter and would guess it won't hurt the time much.  A good converter makes a huge difference and is worth a lot time wise though if your car can hook and make use of it. 

blykins

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Re: out of the box Trick Flow heads vs. ported Edelbrocks?
« Reply #42 on: April 06, 2020, 05:42:02 AM »
Paulie,
I think you have competing goals. Running even high 10s with a 3.64 will take some serious torque. Nitrous or blower in my opinion, especially if you are going to try to come out soft and catch up on the big end. I would look close at the desired end use and if it is a street racer, dump the tall gear

If I had a 4.11 gear with 27" tires I would run out of rpm with a 3 speed with my new combination. I am almost at that point with my little 428. I HAVE to lower (numerically) the gearing.  Just a question of how much. 

Yes, of course I have competing goals.  That is what makes it interesting.  I have never had a combination with too little gear, just too much.   Remember my experiment with the low ratio gear set?  It was fun, but no bueno for actually getting good ET's.  And yes, I can work the throttle, but physics is physics.  Will I gain another 4-5 tenths?  Maybe, maybe not.  But at least it's real.   

paulie

You are in the same boat as everyone else who is in this predicament.   You either add an overdrive for another gear for cruising with a deep gear and big cam, or you pull cam out to get the peak down where it's fitting for a taller gear and learn how to drive it.

You're about to spend a lot of money for an experiment that most of us already know what the results will be.   There's a reason why this is the road less traveled.....

Putting a ported TW on top really just adds icing to the proverbial cake.  No bottom end and the heads/cam won't give you enough to have any top end.

Brent Lykins
Lykins Motorsports
Custom FE Street, Drag Race, Road Race, and Pulling Truck Engines
Custom Roller & Flat Tappet Camshafts
www.lykinsmotorsports.com
brent@lykinsmotorsports.com
www.customfordcams.com
502-759-1431
Instagram:  brentlykinsmotorsports
YouTube:  Lykins Motorsports

plovett

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Re: out of the box Trick Flow heads vs. ported Edelbrocks?
« Reply #43 on: April 06, 2020, 07:16:20 AM »
With a trap speed of 125, if you optimize it for the track, your car should be deep into the 10s.  I don't street race but I would think you would lose a lot of time from a non prepped surface especially with drag radials. 

After the trip to the track, I put in a new center section going from 4.30s to 3.89s to stay off the limiter and would guess it won't hurt the time much.  A good converter makes a huge difference and is worth a lot time wise though if your car can hook and make use of it.

I am planning on going from 4.11 to 3.64:1, but I also have two sets of wheels.  My plan is to use a 26" tall tire for "race" and in town, and a 28-1/4 inch tall tire for highway cruising.  I currently have a 27" tall tire so the effect of the 26" tire will be something like me changing to 3.78:1 ratio.

I thought about using a taller tire with my 4.11 gears, but I don't think that will be enough.   I think I would run out of rpm by the end of the quarter mile, at least rpm that I am comfortable with.

I like to have a few "extra" mph on the top end so I am not on the rev limiter

Hopefully the shorter tire, combined with the displacement increase( if my 427 block works out okay) and some more airflow from improved cylinder heads and intake will get me to the same point with less rpm.  If I can gain from where I was then so much the better.

thanks,

paulie

afret

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Re: out of the box Trick Flow heads vs. ported Edelbrocks?
« Reply #44 on: April 06, 2020, 11:24:12 AM »
Long ago we used to drive a 390 Torino with 3.91 gears, 10 inch converter, and 27" tall tires all over the place.  Went on long highway drives all over the western states with no problem. (Other than gas mileage. LOL) 3.89/3.91 gears are a pretty good compromise especially with 28" tires for the highway.