Author Topic: out of the box Trick Flow heads vs. ported Edelbrocks?  (Read 14630 times)

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Tommy-T

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Re: out of the box Trick Flow heads vs. ported Edelbrocks?
« Reply #45 on: April 06, 2020, 11:59:35 AM »
With a trap speed of 125, if you optimize it for the track, your car should be deep into the 10s.  I don't street race but I would think you would lose a lot of time from a non prepped surface especially with drag radials. 

After the trip to the track, I put in a new center section going from 4.30s to 3.89s to stay off the limiter and would guess it won't hurt the time much.  A good converter makes a huge difference and is worth a lot time wise though if your car can hook and make use of it.

Earl nailed it.
If you're running 125 mph in the quarter now, forget about motors, transmissions, or rear end gears. Get the suspension and tires to work properly and you'll run mid-10's as is.
Not trying to be an asshole, but did you get your times/mph at a real drag strip and not a g-meter? If so, put some real slicks, the biggest that'll fit, and try some Caltracks or other suspension kit that will make that Merc hook!

plovett

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Re: out of the box Trick Flow heads vs. ported Edelbrocks?
« Reply #46 on: April 06, 2020, 12:07:33 PM »
Paulie,
I think you have competing goals. Running even high 10s with a 3.64 will take some serious torque. Nitrous or blower in my opinion, especially if you are going to try to come out soft and catch up on the big end. I would look close at the desired end use and if it is a street racer, dump the tall gear

If I had a 4.11 gear with 27" tires I would run out of rpm with a 3 speed with my new combination. I am almost at that point with my little 428. I HAVE to lower (numerically) the gearing.  Just a question of how much. 

Yes, of course I have competing goals.  That is what makes it interesting.  I have never had a combination with too little gear, just too much.   Remember my experiment with the low ratio gear set?  It was fun, but no bueno for actually getting good ET's.  And yes, I can work the throttle, but physics is physics.  Will I gain another 4-5 tenths?  Maybe, maybe not.  But at least it's real.   

paulie

You are in the same boat as everyone else who is in this predicament.   You either add an overdrive for another gear for cruising with a deep gear and big cam, or you pull cam out to get the peak down where it's fitting for a taller gear and learn how to drive it.

You're about to spend a lot of money for an experiment that most of us already know what the results will be.   There's a reason why this is the road less traveled.....

Putting a ported TW on top really just adds icing to the proverbial cake.  No bottom end and the heads/cam won't give you enough to have any top end.

As you surmised Brent, I am trying to figure out a good combo with the limitation of 3 gears.  I've looked at overdrives and decided not to.  I don't think I have made any wild claims or am doing anything too crazy.  I only mentioned that I would love to break into the 10's when someone else brought it up.    Just want to lower the rpms by about 500 and try to get the same result or better than I have now.  More cubes, better heads, and better intake is the plan.  The cam will likely be about the same duration as on my 428. 

And consistently getting 550 hp to the ground on street tires on street surfaces is not easy for me.  On most of my runs I am rolling into the throttle in 1st gear and even then I often spin and have to work the throttle.  No doubt my driving and suspension could be better.  Maybe it is easy for you?

Also, the Tunnel Wedge is just an option.   I have a ported BT 1x4 as well.   I want to try both intakes on the dyno.

Thanks for the info on the cylinder heads.  I don't doubt I will be giving up some power by sticking with the Eboks. 

paulie

plovett

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Re: out of the box Trick Flow heads vs. ported Edelbrocks?
« Reply #47 on: April 06, 2020, 12:12:52 PM »
With a trap speed of 125, if you optimize it for the track, your car should be deep into the 10s.  I don't street race but I would think you would lose a lot of time from a non prepped surface especially with drag radials. 

After the trip to the track, I put in a new center section going from 4.30s to 3.89s to stay off the limiter and would guess it won't hurt the time much.  A good converter makes a huge difference and is worth a lot time wise though if your car can hook and make use of it.

Earl nailed it.
If you're running 125 mph in the quarter now, forget about motors, transmissions, or rear end gears. Get the suspension and tires to work properly and you'll run mid-10's as is.
Not trying to be an asshole, but did you get your times/mph at a real drag strip and not a g-meter? If so, put some real slicks, the biggest that'll fit, and try some Caltracks or other suspension kit that will make that Merc hook!

No worries.  And yes, my times have been with a G-meter.   An older G-Tech one.  How accurate?  I don't know.  125 mph was my best mph with near perfect weather conditions.  Cold dry air.   Hell, could have had a tail wind for all I know.  It was consistently in the 121-122 range.  I think the rpm on the tach backs that up, but a little harder to tell with the slip of a convertor. 

paulie

BattlestarGalactic

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Re: out of the box Trick Flow heads vs. ported Edelbrocks?
« Reply #48 on: April 06, 2020, 02:40:51 PM »
At 122 mph, that is 10.8's with some decent acceleration(traction).  The wagon is going 10.7 at 123 mph.

I have a very vintage Vericom VC 2000 that I bought new back in the mid 90's?  There were pricey back then, like $600?  I still have it and have used it a few times in the last few years.  I've been wanting to set it up in the wagon and see how accurate it actually is.  I just forget to take it with me.

I get the whole street racing scenario and trying to hook up on plain asphalt.  It takes LOTS of chassis work and good shocks.  Without that you will just spin your tires no matter how soft you try to leave.  Roll racing makes it even harder because you can't plant the tires properly with the car moving.  You need to shock the tires, lift the nose and plant the tires hard. 

The only easy way to apply power is something like a Grid that you can control the ramp up(timing).  Just like the turbo guys do.  Leave soft, get the nose up, tires planted and then hit it for all she'll take.
Larry

plovett

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Re: out of the box Trick Flow heads vs. ported Edelbrocks?
« Reply #49 on: April 06, 2020, 04:24:09 PM »
Well Paulie, always good to try something,and it’s your car and bank account. Just remember you are trying to make up 11.4% of torque multiplication from the gear change alone, 60 ft lbs or so, and even more when you take out converter, just  to break even

With a cross bolted 427 based stroker with a ported TW, I would be letting it eat if you are running out of rpm with the current motor, that is if being real is street racing

Real is real.  That's all that means.   Yes, I could run the stroked 427 to the same rpm I run my 428, but the whole point of building a bigger motor, for me, is to make similar or better power with less rpm.  I am peaking at maybe 6500-6600 rpm and shifting around 6900-7000 now with my 428.  I have about 405 lbs open spring pressure on a flat tappet cam, titanium retainers...…cruising down the highway at 65 mph and 3600 rpm sucks.   I've never been a displacement junky, but one thing it can do is make power at lower revs.  I'd like lower rpms, lower valve spring pressure, and numerically lower gears.  That'd be nice.

I don't like using torque to measure power, but it should be up about 50 ft/lbs from my current 428.

I don't know why you guys got fixated on the Tunnel Wedge.  I keep saying that is one of two intakes I want to try.  I would guess my 1x4 BT will get the nod, but I want to try both on the dyno.  Real is real, right?  If the Tunnel Wedge surprises me and the curve looks good with the combo, then so be it.  If not, then so be it. 

Anyway, the info on the Trick Flow vs Ed heads was good.  It sounds like those TF's work really well with a small port. 

paulie


Tommy-T

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Re: out of the box Trick Flow heads vs. ported Edelbrocks?
« Reply #50 on: April 07, 2020, 11:34:02 AM »
I hear you Paulie.
I street raced for years with my Mustang. First with my 390, then with a 454 inch Hi Riser and mini tubbs so I could fit a 11.5 x 29 slick in the wheelwell. In the early '80's there were no fancy "street tires" except for circle track recaps. You were either on slicks or street tires.

It is true the setting your car up for street racing is totally different than for a prepped track. I found that just enough converter so my car would idle in gear with a "snotty" cam and no more worked best to kill off a little torque to limit tire spin. That worked ok at the track too, except your pals with 8" converters or sticks would pull you a couple of cars out of the hole. With a set up like that at the track I could "flat foot" it on the green with no tire spin.

I've always had a 6500 rpm limit on my FE motors. I like a 6K shift point and run out the back door at just under 6500. You see the insides of your motor a lot less often that way. I see guys in magazines that say they can run 9's with 3.50 gears but they must be making tremendous amouts of power. You can run well into the 10's with conservative shift points like that with 600hp or there abouts. You'll still need a tire/suspension set up that works, and at least 4.11's even with your big stroker.

Get the car to the track for some real numbers. Then get it to hook before you mess with the motor any more. ;)