Author Topic: Should you buy a Tunnel Wedge intake? Think again...  (Read 7876 times)

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jgkurz

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Should you buy a Tunnel Wedge intake? Think again...
« on: September 23, 2019, 07:40:37 PM »
Hi All, I have a 488ci Side Oiler with BBM heads, hydraulic roller cam, and a Ford MR 2x4 intake in my 69 Mustang. It runs great and is used for street and occasional strip duty. A couple years ago it made 568hp @ 5600rpm on a Super Flow dyno. I have always thought I could have eeked out more power if I spent more time on the dyno. When I installed the engine in the car I found a few improvements, but that's a different story. One of the things I wondered was how the engine would have performed with a Tunnel Wedge intake. Jay Brown's book, Intake Comparo provided some valuable info here. Out of curiosity, I graphed a few engines and came to the conclusion I am probably better off with the dual plane MR 2x4 given that I am on the street 80% and strip 20%. Notice the 2x4 wins below 5000rpm and the Tunnel Wedge wins everything above 5000rpm. My engine would only have 600-800 rpm more before power is done so a Tunnel Wedge doesn't make sense for me. The Tunnel Wedge makes it's power on top while losing at the lowend, especially with smaller cubes. I thought this was worth sharing since this is a topic I hear discussed often. I like the look of the Tunnel Wedge and the peak power "potential", but power-under-curve is more fun to drive. Thank you Jay for the info and to Blair for not letting me make a bad decision. 





« Last Edit: September 23, 2019, 08:14:46 PM by jgkurz »

GerryP

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Re: Should you buy a Tunnel Wedge intake? Think again...
« Reply #1 on: September 23, 2019, 08:06:03 PM »
Thanks for posting that up.  I think most - maybe nearly all- know the TW is not as competitive at low rpm but it helps to see it in black and white.  But it's probably not bad enough for folks to not want to bolt down a TW just because it looks badass.

If HP was your ultimate goal, you'd ditch the MR and go with a Victor single plane.  But those don't have the same cool as a dual quad MR.

jgkurz

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Re: Should you buy a Tunnel Wedge intake? Think again...
« Reply #2 on: September 23, 2019, 08:18:09 PM »
Thanks for posting that up.  I think most - maybe nearly all- know the TW is not as competitive at low rpm but it helps to see it in black and white.  But it's probably not bad enough for folks to not want to bolt down a TW just because it looks badass.

If HP was your ultimate goal, you'd ditch the MR and go with a Victor single plane.  But those don't have the same cool as a dual quad MR.

All true! Also, if I had a 521ci FE a TW might make more sense on the street to tame down the torque. I wish I had that problem...

351crules

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Re: Should you buy a Tunnel Wedge intake? Think again...
« Reply #3 on: September 23, 2019, 08:47:16 PM »
do you have access to a dominator vic intake...like to see what that would make

Posi67

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Re: Should you buy a Tunnel Wedge intake? Think again...
« Reply #4 on: September 23, 2019, 10:15:16 PM »
As above.. I don't think the power loss is enough to make me not want one but then I like T-Wedges and wish I would have found one back in my early days. Currently have a Dove T-Wedge on my 428 and a BT 2x4 on the 390 just because. I have contemplated putting the Dove on the 390 but it just runs good the way it is and while I doubt it would hurt it's likely a waste of gaskets.

I also have a BBM T-Wedge for another project and no idea how well it's going to work. And while we're on the subject.. has anyone seen or heard news on the much vaunted Trick Flow T-Wedge? That sounded promising for smaller cube engines and I had thought of getting one for the 390.
« Last Edit: September 24, 2019, 12:15:47 AM by Posi67 »

Drew Pojedinec

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Re: Should you buy a Tunnel Wedge intake? Think again...
« Reply #5 on: September 23, 2019, 10:28:41 PM »
Clearly the only logical thing to do is build a larger engine

My427stang

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Re: Should you buy a Tunnel Wedge intake? Think again...
« Reply #6 on: September 24, 2019, 07:09:40 AM »
Clearly the only logical thing to do is build a larger engine

It does show that huh?  In fact, if you looked at a drag racer that stays in the upper end, the torque difference doesn't enter in the calculation, and the gains favor the TW and climb in the range of peak and shift recovery with each engine. That being said, good info and well presented to show a pattern, and for the street, it would be hard to beat a medium riser

do you have access to a dominator vic intake...like to see what that would make

I love Victor intakes, but they have their own demons LOL  In fact, without a bunch of grinding, they are pretty poor.  Even on my street 489 and my truck 461, both far more mild than Jay's strokers in the graphs, I had to work the port hard to even get close to a med riser port, they were cast sloppy and all over the map from one port to another.  Likely because they think racers will port, the RPMs aren't like that

However, even with work doubt they would out power either  deep breathing dual quad, on the same engine.  However, they are certainly cheaper and that money could be put toward porting and more head work which could make them worthwhile for power per dollar. 

Neat thread, I am a TW fan though regardless, especially if you are going to spin it hard.
« Last Edit: September 24, 2019, 07:11:21 AM by My427stang »
---------------------------------
Ross
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- 70 Fastback Mustang, 489 cid FE, Victor, SEFI, Erson SFT cam, TKO-600 5 speed, 4.11 9 inch.
- 71 F100 shortbed 4x4, 461 cid FE, headers, Victor Pro-flo EFI, Comp Custom HFT cam, 3.50 9 inch

Falcon67

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Re: Should you buy a Tunnel Wedge intake? Think again...
« Reply #7 on: September 24, 2019, 08:50:04 AM »
FWIW - I can produce graphs like that comparing a dual plane Air gap intake + 600DP on a 302 vs a 2x4 tunnel ram 2x600VS on the same motor.  Same with the mild 450 HP 351C with a 650DP vs a 840DP on a tall single plane.  In the real world, the car preformed exactly the same with either intake on the 302, same ET/MPH with the carb switch.  Bench racing, racing dynos.  We race cars, not dynos LOL.  Once in the car the entire combination bumper to bumper comes into play and the dyno sheets are good for the first shot at a converter and shift point settings.  After that, all the data is in the time slip.

Tommy-T

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Re: Should you buy a Tunnel Wedge intake? Think again...
« Reply #8 on: September 24, 2019, 11:32:20 AM »
As above.. I don't think the power loss is enough to make me not want one but then I like T-Wedges and wish I would have found one back in my early days. Currently have a Dove T-Wedge on my 428 and a BT 2x4 on the 390 just because. I have contemplated putting the Dove on the 390 but it just runs good the way it is and while I doubt it would hurt it's likely a waste of gaskets.

I also have a BBM T-Wedge for another project and no idea how well it's going to work. And while we're on the subject.. has anyone seen or heard news on the much vaunted Trick Flow T-Wedge? That sounded promising for smaller cube engines and I had thought of getting one for the 390.

Saw the Trick Flow Tunnel Wedge intake manifold up close and personal at the Trick Flow display in Reno during Hot August Nights. When quizzed about availability, the TF guy said they'd be on sale in a couple of months. I bet that TomP has a picture.
« Last Edit: September 24, 2019, 11:34:09 AM by Tommy-T »

hwoods

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Re: Should you buy a Tunnel Wedge intake? Think again...
« Reply #9 on: September 24, 2019, 12:01:48 PM »
Trick Flow Tunnel Wedge video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F2ZH5A_qjpg
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Previous FE Cars:   1965 Ford Galaxie 390/4spd then upgraded to 427 sideoiler
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shady

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Re: Should you buy a Tunnel Wedge intake? Think again...
« Reply #10 on: September 24, 2019, 12:42:13 PM »
When you look up "cool" in the dictionary, right under Steve McQueen is this.
What goes fast doesn't go fast long'
What goes fast takes your money with it.
So I'm slow & broke, what went wrong?
2021 FERR cool FE Winner
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plovett

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Re: Should you buy a Tunnel Wedge intake? Think again...
« Reply #11 on: September 24, 2019, 12:50:10 PM »
I have a Joe Craine ported Dove Tunnel Wedge with medium riser size ports that flows 470-475cfm.  Dang!!!!!!  That's a lot of flow.  I don't know if I can build enough engine for it. 

On the other hand, as a street racer, killing off some low end power (and using an automatic trans.) is how you win races on street tires, on street surfaces.

…...hmmmmm

paulie

jgkurz

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Re: Should you buy a Tunnel Wedge intake? Think again...
« Reply #12 on: September 24, 2019, 05:59:01 PM »
Does anyone believe the Trick Flow TW will flow any differently then a Ford, BBM, Blue Thunder TW? FWIW, I can't find it on the Trick Flow website yet.

Drew Pojedinec

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Re: Should you buy a Tunnel Wedge intake? Think again...
« Reply #13 on: September 24, 2019, 06:48:40 PM »
Does anyone believe the Trick Flow TW will flow any differently then a Ford, BBM, Blue Thunder TW? FWIW, I can't find it on the Trick Flow website yet.

Believe?  I dunno.... I wish it would.  I would absolutely love a velocity tunnelwedge for street usage.

plovett

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Re: Should you buy a Tunnel Wedge intake? Think again...
« Reply #14 on: September 24, 2019, 11:43:49 PM »
Does anyone believe the Trick Flow TW will flow any differently then a Ford, BBM, Blue Thunder TW? FWIW, I can't find it on the Trick Flow website yet.

I haven't had one in hand, but supposedly the BBM Tunnel Wedge has larger ports than a factory Tunnel Wedge.  Hopefully the Trick Flow will have factory size or maybe even smaller ports.

paulie