Author Topic: Tune Changed Overnight  (Read 7031 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Thumperbird

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 277
    • View Profile
Re: Tune Changed Overnight Found It!
« Reply #30 on: June 17, 2019, 06:52:48 AM »
Aluminum heads, I went 1 full turn on the Harland Sharps which I believe is 0.050".
Oil pressure is very good, 20+ hot at idle, 50 crusie, over 60 cold or on it.

Maybe pre-load was too much and I managed to jamb a lifter piston in it's bore due to some valve float or ?

Ran it gentle some last night and pretty loud tick still there, hoping it goes away as I would prefer to drive it easy (so it does not happen again) for a while before having to pull the top off.
Thanks.
« Last Edit: June 18, 2019, 05:33:20 PM by Thumperbird »

blykins

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4812
    • View Profile
    • Lykins Motorsports
Re: Tune Changed Overnight
« Reply #31 on: June 17, 2019, 08:34:32 AM »
Aluminum heads, I went 1 full turn on the Harland Sharps which I believe is 0.050".
Oil pressure is very good, 20+ hot at idle, 50 crusie, over 60 cold or on it.

Maybe pre-load was too much and I managed to jamb a lifter piston in it's bore due to some valve float or ?

Ran it gentle some last night and pretty loud tick still there, hoping it goes away as I would prefer to drive it easy (so it does not happen again) for a while before having to pull the top off.
Thanks.

One full turn is generally .050-.060" of preload which is fine.  You don't have too much preload. 

What oil are you running?  Are you sure it's not a header gasket leak?
Brent Lykins
Lykins Motorsports
Custom FE Street, Drag Race, Road Race, and Pulling Truck Engines
Custom Roller & Flat Tappet Camshafts
www.lykinsmotorsports.com
brent@lykinsmotorsports.com
www.customfordcams.com
502-759-1431
Instagram:  brentlykinsmotorsports
YouTube:  Lykins Motorsports

Thumperbird

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 277
    • View Profile
Re: Tune Changed Overnight
« Reply #32 on: June 17, 2019, 12:06:59 PM »
Pretty certain it is not a header gasket, felt around and the sound is distinctly a metal tick.
10W-30 VR1.  Oil pressure is very good, 20+ hot at idle, 50 cruise, over 60 cold or on it.

It happened the other night after a hard run as well but went away in a few miles, this time, I have run it for a few more minutes but no improvement yet.  It is off enough where I can tell idle is not the same.

« Last Edit: June 17, 2019, 12:17:13 PM by Thumperbird »

Thumperbird

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 277
    • View Profile
Re: Tune Changed Overnight
« Reply #33 on: June 18, 2019, 10:01:50 AM »
I suppose a real engine builder would have disassembled, inspected , and cleaned up a new set of lifters before installing.
I was not that smart.  Am I missing something here?  If it were bent valve it would not have gone away the first time correct?

RJP

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 395
    • View Profile
Re: Tune Changed Overnight
« Reply #34 on: June 18, 2019, 10:59:26 AM »
Intermittent lifter ticking after a hard run can be oil aeration. Check your pan for correct capacity, proper baffling and pump pick up [cracks, pinholes etc]. And don't overlook the pickup to pump flange gasket.

Thumperbird

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 277
    • View Profile
Re: Tune Changed Overnight
« Reply #35 on: June 18, 2019, 01:42:18 PM »
How nervous/cautious should I be about running it with a pretty loud tick?

MRadke

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 135
    • View Profile
Re: Tune Changed Overnight
« Reply #36 on: June 18, 2019, 02:25:44 PM »
When mine had a tick after I drove it enthusiastically, it had a bent push rod.  Costs a set of valve cover gaskets and some time to check.

HarleyJack17

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 271
    • View Profile
Re: Tune Changed Overnight
« Reply #37 on: June 18, 2019, 03:02:17 PM »
If it has a pretty good tick it is time to investigate as stated above.
Was the dizzy gear the correct type for a roller cam and set correctly? Bent/loose pushrod? Cam bolt the correct threads and get Loctite at assembly(some roller cores differ)? Lifters installed in correct direction with link bar toward the center of the block?

I would investigate the above items, all easy to do, with the exception of the cam bolt...but likely you remember if you put the correct bolt and put thread locker on it.

Unfortunately, I put together a new stroker and it dropped a lifter. Investigation found a collapsed lifter, and two damaged lifters.  The result of the dizzy gear being set up wrong and cam bolt was backing out(forgot Loctite).  Rookie late night mistakes but it happened, even after several checks and thought processes.  Check lists will be used on the next one.

It may just be a bad lifter or maybe a loose pushrod, but with what these engines cost, I recommend digging into it a little in case it is a major issue.  Hour or two just to put your mind to rest and maybe save from an expensive fix if left undone. Best of luck.
 

Falcon67

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2158
    • View Profile
    • Kelly's Hot Rod Page
Re: Tune Changed Overnight
« Reply #38 on: June 18, 2019, 03:23:35 PM »
Just throw in a couple of comments -

1) in my experience, if a dual primary only idle type setup isn;t set spot identical, you can get random issues like rolling idle, etc.

2) Power valve gaskets leak.  10% ethanol, VP racing fuel, whatever - the current crop doesn't last long.  I regularly pull them out looking like a soaked rag or they come apart in two layers, like a cheap bagel. 

3) those that commented on  changing weather - from my experience running carbs, bah.  We can get 2000+ ft of DA change in a day at the track and nobody goes around fiddling with carbs or injectors, etc.  We went from around 3800 at 8AM to near 6000' on Sunday then dropped to close to 3500 because of air from close thunderstorms.  Nobody took a screwdriver to anything.  If you get carb issues when the temp changes 10 degrees, you are either way, way, way too lean or you have other issues.  We'll lose over 4000' effective altitude between here and Dallas and not re-jet.  The cars just pick up .2~.3 and maybe a couple MPH in 660'.  Methanol, maybe .1.  IMHO carbs are not that sensitive.  Engine power output IS - but not the carbs.  You lose power from water grains displacing air molecules or heat reducing the weight of the air stack resting over the carb. 

Thumperbird

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 277
    • View Profile
Re: Tune Changed Overnight Found it!
« Reply #39 on: June 18, 2019, 05:29:43 PM »
Collapsed exhaust lifter on #4.  Have not pulled intake yet but a solid 0.075" of pushrod play, adjuster is tight and has not moved, so hoping that is all it is at this point.  I guess i know what I will be doing next.

Barry_R

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1915
    • View Profile
    • Survival Motorsports
Re: Tune Changed Overnight
« Reply #40 on: June 23, 2019, 06:06:03 PM »
Dual quads.  You can probably fish that lifter pair out through the rear breather opening without pulling the intake.
Tag wire with a little hook bent into it, a flashlight through the distributor hole, long needle nose....alcohol....

Drew Pojedinec

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2116
    • View Profile
Re: Tune Changed Overnight
« Reply #41 on: June 23, 2019, 08:06:12 PM »
Dual quads.  You can probably fish that lifter pair out through the rear breather opening without pulling the intake.
Tag wire with a little hook bent into it, a flashlight through the distributor hole, long needle nose....alcohol....

Not naming any names (it was me), I know a fella that installed the intake on an engine stand, got everything sealed up, was getting ready to install the pushrods and rockers, etc and decided to roll the engine over on the stand.  That guy is a real idiot, but he got good at installing lifters with the intake bolted down (again, this was me).
Same guy that stuck a screwdriver through the flexplate so he could torque the balancer bolt.  He later forgot about the screwdriver and panic'd when he could only turn the engine over so far either way. (also me)

67428GT500

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 694
    • View Profile
Re: Tune Changed Overnight
« Reply #42 on: June 23, 2019, 08:45:11 PM »
Drew.... Say it's not so!  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

                                  -Keith

Thumperbird

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 277
    • View Profile
Re: Tune Changed Overnight
« Reply #43 on: June 24, 2019, 06:46:30 AM »
Thanks all. 
Swap is done, lifter definitely stuck down hard, 100psi (input) did not free it up but a solid wrap on a hunk of wood did make it move.  I wanted to get a look at the other lifters and cam lobes so the intake came off, good practice.  Outside of fighting to crack valve covers loose, used Permatex black ultra, the stuff is nasty to work with but does not let me down, and arduous clean up of gasket surfaces, did not go too bad overall.  Cam lobes, other lifters, dist. gear, rod ends, rockers, etc., all look good.  Good news is after shimming the rocker stands over the winter rocker sweep on the valve tips is down to ~0.050".

I still have a light tick somewhere though I have a hard time discerning it from normal engine noise and don't really know what "normal" is anyways, not going to worry about that for now and just get some miles on it, probably set my rev. limit idiot light at 5500 and not delay shifts.  I was into the low 6's and either MSD rev. limit had kicked in or the valve train was misbehaving at the end of the run that toasted the lifter so no more rpm's over 6 for a while.

Has anyone ever experienced high rpm's cause so much coolant hydraulic pressure/flow that it bends the flange of the thermostat, has happened twice to me now.  The way the thermostat sits in the expansion tank neck the entire diameter of the flange is not pinched between solid surfaces.

Thanks. 
« Last Edit: June 24, 2019, 06:55:33 AM by Thumperbird »

Falcon67

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2158
    • View Profile
    • Kelly's Hot Rod Page
Re: Tune Changed Overnight
« Reply #44 on: June 24, 2019, 08:26:01 AM »
Good news there.

My experience with water pumps and higher RPM is not pressure, its that they get into cavitation and lose flow.  Even the Flow Kooler units that use the disk on the back of the fins to improve flow do it.  If pressure is going up, then my guess would be steam pressure, maybe from steam bubbles around the chambers in the heads.  I run at least 16 PSI and sometimes 22. 

Check exhaust gasket area closely for your tick.  I swore the 351C in the Mustang had a solid lifter sound out of the hydro rollers until I noted that the Percy's exhaust header gaskets were leaking nearly everywhere.

>Tag wire with a little hook bent into it, a flashlight through the distributor hole, long needle nose....alcohol....
Probably not talking about denatured either...  ;D