Author Topic: Horsepower loss  (Read 7747 times)

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Falcon67

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Re: Horsepower loss
« Reply #45 on: May 15, 2019, 09:10:22 AM »
LOL - a planetary trans with an air shifter and a clutch you let go of once is just an automatic.  Same difference.   8)  Ever heard of a Clutch Flite?  And pulling levers in a Pro Stock car isn't any different than pulling on a B&M Pro Ratchet attached to a built C4 auto.  Watch the shift light, yank the lever.  The fact that it doesn't have a converter between the trans and the motor is immaterial.

I was thinking more about your regular trans and street/strip type deal.  Yes, I've seen a manual go rounds when bracket racing.  It's just that most of us don't.  My personal opinion is that once you get down in the 11s or high 10s, I'd like both hand controlling the car and not manually shifting (either auto or stick) anymore.  Again, since I bracket race and we don't do any heads up style racing around these parts I can use the extra time to be watching my opponent and making strategy decisions on the way down.  Anything else is a distraction from the task at hand.  If it's just TnT, banging gears and/or doing the heads up thing - to each their own happiness.  I still have a stack of flywheels, the Mr. Gasket shifter, trans, bell, etc piled up in the shed.  If we keep the 70 Mustang, I just might stick the old RAN 3 speed in it for old days fun.  That trans has been run a lot at Green Valley in the way back LOL.  I used to be pretty good at the gear thing.  Kinda hate it that the old 4 speed top loaders are so much $$$$ these days. 
« Last Edit: May 15, 2019, 09:16:22 AM by Falcon67 »

Barry_R

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Re: Horsepower loss
« Reply #46 on: May 15, 2019, 09:28:40 AM »
My Torino is a +/-3700 pound street style car with a face plated top loader with an H pattern shifter and a Tim Hyatt modified soft-loc.  It does run 10s through the exhaust on ET Streets.  Before I face plated it the trans would not shift worth a damn at high RPM - but it has a 7500 RPM shift point, so that might not be a very fair comparison for most street builds. 

I have and do drive it around a little bit, but will readily admit that it is not a great deal of fun for normal usage.  The trans can be upshifted and downshifted if you match RPM with no real drama other than an occasional "clank".  The clutch is another deal for me - it starts out decent with some slip if you tag throttle in high gear from a modest speed roll, but after some drive time it seems to get hot and grabby - stalling the engine on light engagement or letting out a big ol' screech as you try to slip it enough to leave a traffic light.

Thinking really hard about going to a T56 and some sort of streetable clutch for cruising around since I don't get to a race track more than a couple times per year anymore.  Anybody want to trade????:)

BattlestarGalactic

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Re: Horsepower loss
« Reply #47 on: May 15, 2019, 10:31:39 AM »
Quote
it starts out decent with some slip if you tag throttle in high gear from a modest speed roll,


Barry has just told you exactly what happens if you drive a sof lok incorrectly on the street.  Yes, it's a metallic clutch so it gets grabby the more you use it(slip it).  You CAN NOT play with it at low rpm.  It will slip and get worse as it wears.  Making for no fun while on the street.  You can't "play" like you can with a real aggressive street clutch.

You can't have your cake and eat it too.   Just ain't happening with a race car clutch on the street.  Drive it like an ol man...or drive it like you're on the track. No in-between.  If you want to "play", you have to crank the base way up to turn it into a street clutch.   Then it is like any other stiff street clutch.  It will still get grabby with heat.  So it's back to a real stiff pedal and organic disc.  They are now building twin disc's to get the surface area to grab an organic disc without being a 3200# pedal.



I agree Chris, typical bracket racing with a stick is tough.  If I tried to get back into normal weekend no box racing, it would be tough to go lots of rounds.  The kids these days are tough and they have their cars set up to be hard to beat.  It has changed a lot in the last 10-12 yrs.   I'm not getting younger, cutting consistent .01 lights isn't getting easier.  In our stick group, we are all in the same boat, with the same issues.  The playing field is more even.

Yes, everyone things their old painted toploader is worth $1K.  Ugh.  I used to buy them for $100(or less).  That was 20 yrs ago.
Larry

cjshaker

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Re: Horsepower loss
« Reply #48 on: May 15, 2019, 12:04:24 PM »
I can use the extra time to be watching my opponent and making strategy decisions on the way down. 

Or eat a sandwich, or drink a cup of java, or wave at the crowd while going down the track, or....

Sorry Chris, just having some fun..lol  Yes, with all the options today, the lines get blurred somewhere in there. I was just pointing out some of the high end options available today. I don't think anybody here is in it for the money, so to me it's about the fun. If I could go a few rounds against some automatics, then I consider that a success. Besides, I think a lot of races are won or lost on reaction time.

And I've said this before; anyone who thinks autos are more reliable....spend a week doing Drag Week. Automatics and roller lifters/rockers are by far the vast majority of breakage. I've watched quite a few guys do 2-3+ rebuilds on their autos during the 5 day event. The heat just kills them, then they fail on the track.
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Falcon67

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Re: Horsepower loss
« Reply #49 on: May 15, 2019, 01:25:01 PM »
LOL, stick car going rounds confuses everybody.   ;D

I would not say any particular item is reliable or not when we are beating on these things.  I have trashed my autos - and blown clutches on the way home.  I burnt/broke so many clutches and related parts in the early days that at 19 I had a personal account at Fort Worth Brake & Clutch.  Somethings going to break and either way, things gotta come apart.  One clear advantage of a manual is that you can usually pull it without dropping the headers.  Got me on that one!

Last stick car we had was our old 84 Mustang 4 cylinder.  Great little car, could drive it almost all day and only use the clutch for backing up.  Yes, if you hit the right spot you can "California Stop", pop into 1st and take off.  After a while of gear change by RPM, it becomes 2nd nature. 

fekbmax

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Re: Horsepower loss
« Reply #50 on: May 15, 2019, 02:08:58 PM »
We ran a crash box top loader for 3 seasons behind a 466 BBF (lima) in a 8.90et 76 mustang 2 super gas car. Of course there was some maintenance and replacing the worn out cut down dog rings but other than that it held up just fine until we twisted the output shaft a good 1/2" . But what do you expect. Went to a lenco when we built the top sportsman probe, then the 2006 mustang and 598 BBF with trick-flo A460 heads and the cast sheet metal style tunnel ram. Checking the clutch pack pressure's is a simple task and easy adjustment as well. Lenco's are one of the easiest tranny's to work on and once you get them set they are pretty trouble free besides regular maintenance.  They do take a little power though,  about as much as a C6. We used for a brief time both manual and RPM air shift but soon as we started running more quick 8 and quick 16 the levers went back in. Good times.. I'm seriously considering a lenco or a jeffco for my car..
« Last Edit: May 15, 2019, 02:12:21 PM by fekbmax »
Keith.  KB MAX Racing.