Author Topic: Guess the tunnel port horsepower!  (Read 38472 times)

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jayb

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Guess the tunnel port horsepower!
« on: November 10, 2012, 11:09:02 AM »
We are going to run Rob's (fetorino) tunnel port on the dyno today.  Here are the specifications:

- 496", 4.375" stroke, 4.255 bore
-  11.3:1 static compression, CP pistons
-  Stock tunnel ports ported by Blair, 375 cfm on the intake, 225 on the exhaust, 2.25/1.75 valves
-  Bullet roller cam, .660 lift, 258/270 @ .050", 107 LSA, ICL=105
- Dyno headers, stepped, 1 7/8"/2"/2 1/8", merge collectors
- Intake manifold #1 is a 2X4 tunnel wedge with Blair's modifications, 2" Wilson transition spacers, 780 vacuum secondary carbs with single fuel inlets and side hung float bowls
- Intake manifold #2 is a 1X4 single plane modified for a Dominator carb.  We'll be running a 1050 Dominator plus a tricked out 4150 carb
- Dry sump oiling system

This engine is designed for a road racing application in Rob's '69 Torino.  Peak horsepower and Torque guesses please, and also specify which intake manifold your guess is for...
« Last Edit: November 10, 2012, 11:19:05 AM by jayb »
Jay Brown
- 1969 Mach 1, Drag Week 2005 Winner NA/BB, 511" FE (10.60s @ 129); Drag Week 2007 Runner-Up PA/BB, 490" Supercharged FE (9.35 @ 151)
- 1964 Ford Galaxie, Drag Week 2009 Winner Modified NA (9.50s @ 143), 585" SOHC
- 1969 Shelby Clone, Drag Week 2015 Winner Modified NA (Average 8.98 @ 149), 585" SOHC

   

Kerry j

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Re: Guess the tunnel port horsepower!
« Reply #1 on: November 10, 2012, 11:33:03 AM »
I'll guess 710 HP and 640 TQ.

That's based on what my MR 496 with 9.5 compression made; it made 630 HP, flat tappet cam, Tunnel Wedge with 2, 715 cfm hollies and Dove aluminum heads that flow around 330. I'm thinking the extra compression and tunnel port heads would make another 80 HP. But then do we know what the TP heads flow?
« Last Edit: November 10, 2012, 02:38:09 PM by Kerry j »

gene melchert

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Re: Guess the tunnel port horsepower!
« Reply #2 on: November 10, 2012, 02:24:31 PM »
I'll guess 675 hp w/ 2-4's and 660 w/dominator. If I win, the tooth fairy will put a Pond "graphite" block under my pillow!

cwhitney

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Re: Guess the tunnel port horsepower!
« Reply #3 on: November 10, 2012, 02:30:07 PM »
496 2b4 Intake will be 680hp and 600 torque
496 single 4 will be 650 hp and 600 torque
Jay I think you pick up some power if you put 2" to 2 1/8" step header, or just a straight 2/18 header, alot of cubes for a 1 7/8 primary tube. GOOD LUCK Dyno days are always fun!

Barry_R

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Re: Guess the tunnel port horsepower!
« Reply #4 on: November 10, 2012, 02:43:02 PM »
730@6400 with the 2x4
610@5400 on TQ

no money on this one - not enough history with tunnel ports to do more than a guess

Qikbbstang

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Re: Guess the tunnel port horsepower!
« Reply #5 on: November 10, 2012, 03:17:52 PM »
2X4V
695HP @ 6350rpm
630Tq @ 5700

machoneman

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Re: Guess the tunnel port horsepower!
« Reply #6 on: November 10, 2012, 03:39:39 PM »
710 with the 2X4, 625 torque; 695 with the 1X and 620 torque is my SWAG!
Bob Maag

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Re: Guess the tunnel port horsepower!
« Reply #7 on: November 10, 2012, 04:27:54 PM »
2X4
715@6300
605@5500

1X4 the big one
680@6200
580@5400

482supersnake

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Re: Guess the tunnel port horsepower!
« Reply #8 on: November 10, 2012, 06:02:00 PM »
2x4
745 hp
630 tq

1x4
690 hp
620 tq

e philpott

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Re: Guess the tunnel port horsepower!
« Reply #9 on: November 10, 2012, 09:51:44 PM »
810 HP  with 2x4 ..... 

780 with single 4 ...
« Last Edit: November 10, 2012, 09:58:05 PM by e philpott »

hotrodfeguy

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Re: Guess the tunnel port horsepower!
« Reply #10 on: November 10, 2012, 10:42:01 PM »
679HP 1X4
720HP  2X4
 :o

fetorino

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Re: Guess the tunnel port horsepower!
« Reply #11 on: November 10, 2012, 11:57:58 PM »
I'll guess it makes plenty ;D

jayb

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Re: Guess the tunnel port horsepower!
« Reply #12 on: November 11, 2012, 10:36:14 AM »
OK, we have a partial answer to the big question.  First, here's a couple of photos of Rob's engine on the dyno, the second showing the dry sump tank in the foreground:





After getting the engine hooked up on the dyno, we started the engine mid afternoon.  I had hooked up one of my spare pressure channels on the dyno to crankcase pressure, because we weren't sure how much vacuum the dry sump system would pull in the crankcase, and Rob didn't have a vacuum release valve on the engine, so we wanted to watch that to make sure that we didn't develop too much and affect the internal oiling in the engine.  When the engine started the vacuum creeped up to about 8 inches at around 2000 RPM, which was fine.  After the engine ran for just a couple of minutes though, the Crane distributor gave up, and the engine died and wouldn't restart.  Fortunately the distributor in the 352 stock eliminator engine was the same type, so we just swapped that one in to keep going.  But after the engine restarted, suddenly we had zero crankcase vacuum.  First we thought that the pressure sensor channel on the dyno may have gone out, so we swapped to a different sensor, but still the same result.  Then we hung an analog vacuum gauge on the crankcase vacuum fitting, and still no vacuum.  Finally it dawned on us that the new distributor was not sealing properly to the manifold, and we had a big vacuum leak there.  So, we pulled the distributor again, removed the rubber O-ring, and wrapped the groove in the distributor body with teflon tape to make it larger in diameter, then reinstalled the O-ring and the distributor.  This made a minor improvement, and we were back to about 2" of vacuum, but nowhere near where we had started.  Finally we took The Right Stuff and fed it into the groove between the distributor and manifold, making a mess but also hopefully a good seal.  When we started the engine again we were back to the original vacuum level.

From there we started making some pulls on the engine, starting with 3000-4500 and working our way up to a 4500-6500 RPM pull.  The engine made 685 horsepower right out of the box, with no jetting or timing adjustments, and didn't appear to be falling off at 6500, so we went to 7200.  But we didn't see too much improvement there, and the engine was making its peak power right around 6500 RPM.  The engine appeared to be running a bit lean on the top end, showing A/F numbers in the 13.5:1 range, so we decided to up the jetting in the carbs by a few steps.  On the next pull we were down just a bit on average horsepower, so it seemed we had gone a little far with the jetting.  With the dual quad carbs changing jets was a big ordeal of course, so rather than rejet at this point we decided to try timing next.  We had been running 38 total with the distributor locked, so we increased the timing to 40 and made a pull.  The engine really liked this change, picking up 3 average horsepower across the range and more at peak.  The engine was breaking in nicely also, starting easily and picking up a little power, so we were running right around 696 horsepower pretty repeatably on the pulls. 

Next we wanted to make a change to the collectors and see if that had an impact on the power.  The dyno headers Blair brought are stepped headers, 1 7/8 to 2 to 2 1/8, with merge collectors.  I had a set of merge collectors with a bigger choke point, so Rob and I installed those on the engine and made a pull.  Results were nearly the same, but the bigger merge lost just a bit of average power across the range compared to the original collectors we had been using, so this didn't really help us. 

By now we were getting close to the end of the day, and felt we'd wrung this engine out pretty well.  We decided on one more set of changes:  return to the original merge collectors, and take out some of the jet that we put in earlier in the day.  I think we ended up with one jet higher than we had originally started with.  This combination turned out to be the one the engine liked best, and we finally hit 700 horsepower with this combination.

So, after a day of tuning and tweaking our final dyno pull yielded exactly 700 horsepower at 6600 RPM, and 625 lb-ft of torque at 5000 RPM.  Here is a plot of the data:



Today we'll be swapping to the single 4 intake and trying a couple of different carburetors on the engine.  Rob prefers to run the single four intake in the car, so we'll be trying hard to optimize this combination also.  I'll try to post the results late tonight - Jay
Jay Brown
- 1969 Mach 1, Drag Week 2005 Winner NA/BB, 511" FE (10.60s @ 129); Drag Week 2007 Runner-Up PA/BB, 490" Supercharged FE (9.35 @ 151)
- 1964 Ford Galaxie, Drag Week 2009 Winner Modified NA (9.50s @ 143), 585" SOHC
- 1969 Shelby Clone, Drag Week 2015 Winner Modified NA (Average 8.98 @ 149), 585" SOHC

   

KMcCullah

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Re: Guess the tunnel port horsepower!
« Reply #13 on: November 11, 2012, 02:35:12 PM »
What kind of gas are you guys running?

695hp with the best single 4bbl is my bet.
615 tq.
Kevin McCullah


machoneman

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Re: Guess the tunnel port horsepower!
« Reply #14 on: November 11, 2012, 03:29:26 PM »
Nice Jay...many of us were pretty close....so much for SWAG.....LOL! 

So, when do we see a few pics of this road-racing Torino? Is it a H-M NASCAR clone, something entirely different, more likely the former 80's-90's Riley & Scott Trans-Am Mustang cars ......or what?
Bob Maag