How Do You Choose A Lobe Seperation ?

[My427stang]

LOL good catch Chilly, I did

[Joe-JDC]

Heads flow just over 305 peak, and 230 on exhaust with header tube, it is a Y Block nearing completion.    I am an alternate in this year's EMC.  I am undecided whether to run 4V or tunnel ram, but in my experience, the tunnel ram always makes more torque and power.  I would definitely cam it different for a drag race engine.  Joe-JDC

[blykins]

Joe, at what lift?

Are you running a solid flat tappet with mushrooms?

[e philpott]

I hope you get in Joe !! Sounds like a fun project , love the Tunnel Ram and good Luck !!

[gt350hr]

   Joe,
      I have done some stuff for Engine Masters competitors for years. One of the first criteria is the test parameters. If the testing stops at 7,000 rpm you obviously don't need to make more power beyond that. Cams for EM competitors have become extreme to the point where some are not practical for actual street use! Next obviously is the engine cylinder hears being used. I totally agree with Brent that there isn't 1 cam design that works for all. Certain cylinder heads need "crutch cams" to make up for flow deficiencies on one side or the other. Some go for short duration and super high lift . I know competitors that have tried 15 cams before picking "the" one to use. Obviously the best overall combination of cubic inches plus HP and TQ will be the winner. Changing LSA and cam advance affect HP and IMHO more importantly "where and how much" TQ is made. The flow balance of your head would favor a longer exhaust duration and "might " like less exhaust lift. "I" have found some cylinder heads favor a particular LSA and I simply play with duration and lift and other that don't seem to care.
     Randy

[Tommy-T]

When I was in my late teens my friends and I befriended a gentleman named Owen Bowling. He owned Owen's cams in downtown Los Angeles. If you brought him a usable core he'd regrind it for $30. He'd also regrind your lifters for $20 extra.

His favorite grind to give a young fella if you just wanted to put a "hot" cam in a stock engine with a stock torque converter was the 68I which was the stock intake lobe of a 440 Magnum MoPar. The specs were (with a 1.5 rocker ratio) .450 lift and 268 advertised duration. He would grind it at 111 centers unless you asked for something else. I used several of these grinds in small block Fords (1.6 ratio made them 480 lift) and they worked fine. He also ground some more "aggressive" cams for me that I later found to like better at 108 centers, but that's a discussion for another day.

Back to the 68I camshaft. Around 1985 I became the sencond owner of a 1970 Torino GT with a 429CJ and an automatic trans. The original owner bought the car new at legendary Foulger Ford and was "dyno tuned" by performance director Randy Ritchie. It had a Holley spread bore 800 double pumper and other performance "tweaks" before delivery. The original owner drove it that way for 90,000 miles before I bought it.
 
I drove it that way for a few months and always thought it should have more giddy-up off the line. Long-story-short I installed a 68I on 106 centers (.519 lift in a CJ 429) and it became a tire-fry'n beast! Along with the performance boost came that perfect "big cam" idle that was just right!

Eventually I got him to grind a 68I for an FE (.528 lift in an FE) that was on 100* lobe centers. A pal and I installed it in his 1957 Ford pickup with a pretty stock 390. It idled like it had a REALLY aggressive camshaft! Ran OK but was all done by 4K rpm. It was a science project to see what would happen. Don't need to do it again.

[Joe-JDC]

Stock style lifters are mushroom, and solid flat tappet camshaft.  It is a stroked 292 engine since the 292 has smaller crankshaft journals than the 312.  I am currently running shaft mounted 1.7 roller rocker arms, and .370/.376" lobe lift for .629/ .639" lift at valve.  Joe-JDC

[blykins]

Can you say where lift was for peak flow?

[427HISS]

Very interesting guys.   I love bench racing.

How does head volume, intake and expelling react to LSA ?

[Joe-JDC]

Just received my confirmation that I am in the competition!  Run in third place on Monday, Oct. 1.   I hope to at least not finish last.  LOL  It is a strong group of competitors, but the little Y should make Vintage Class and Vintage Fords proud.  Three Ys on the venue.  Ted Eaton has won this class, so I know he will be ahead of me, but we will be helping each other.  Jon Kaase is also in this class, so expect some "out of the box" thinking again. 


Probably should move any further mention of this engine to the Non-FE discussion site or Members Projects.   Joe-JDC

[CaptCobrajet]

I'd be low and mid 250's.  Like 252/258.  I'd put it on a 110 separation, in at 105.  I think the long runners will have lots of mid-range, so no tight centers for me.  Real fast rockers on both, like 1.9 intake, 1.8 exhaust.  JMO.

[My427stang]

Joe, can you share your choice? or keeping it secret for EMC?

[Joe-JDC]

I don't have "unlimited, deep pockets" to go to unobtanium parts like one participant.  LOL.  When you are working with 1.43/1.54 rocker arms, and it is hard to find 1.6, much less 1.7 rocker arms for the Y Block, you just work with what you can afford.  There is only one source for those, and they are not cheap.  Taking a lesson from Jon K back in 2015, his camshaft was made on ~101* LS and installed at 98.5* or so.  You hear differing numbers thrown around.  I will wait until after the EMC to give specifications on the camshaft.  I have a couple of back-up camshafts for dyno testing, but I am hoping I will not need them.  I could definitely make more horsepower with a different camshaft, but the average would be less, and that is what is needed to be competitive in EMC.  There is another Engine Challenge going on the same week in NC with different rules and different criteria.  Joe-JDC     

[cjshaker]

Joe, I thought the previous years winner wasn't allowed to compete in the same category? You mentioned that Kaase was in the Vintage class, so did they change that rule? Is Royce entered again this year? I also see they moved it to Mentor, Ohio instead of the usual UNOH in Lima. That's a bummer because I always enjoyed taking the day just to see some of the engines since it was only a 20 minute drive for me. Now it would be 3 hours.

Good luck with your entry.

[Joe-JDC]

Yes, Jon is entering another MEL.  I thought that the previous year's winner could not compete with the same type engine, either.  I questioned the rules committee about that, and never got an answer.  Royce is flying in, not a participant.  I have been trying to e-mail him, but apparently they aren't getting through to him.  My computer/e-mail has been messed up since the hack job earlier.  Even Geek Squad cannot fix it.  Joe-JDC