C6 Rebuild Questions-Newbie

[e philpott]

The only time I see them come in is after someone elses rebuild , as long as the low gears ( 1 and reverse ) are proper it doesn't seem to be a noticeable Bang for the other gears  , but if it's reverse or first it Bangs hard just going into gear and this is for all makes not just Ford and what my customers complain about , obviously common sense tells us that it has to be harder on driveline parts but myself have never seen a problem from it and the Demolition Derby guys want a transmission that slams into all gears including reverse for a spool and 5.14 gear with a 26 tall tire , lol

[gt350hr]

  I read where it was  suggested to remove very other coil spring out of low / reverse for softer engagement

[falcongeorge]

  I read where it was  suggested to remove very other coil spring out of low / reverse for softer engagement

I think I saw that too, but didn't make the connection, good point. All good points here, Drew, yes, good point, a high stall converter will absorb most of the bang.

[HarleyJack17]

So no recommendations on a torque converter, stall, etc? 

[falcongeorge]

So no recommendations on a torque converter, stall, etc? 

It may sound like a cop-out, but I would suggest you really need to talk to a converter company on this, the 5000+weight and tall overall gearing are well outside my experience, and realistically, probably most of the guys on here. That weight, combined with the tall gearing are going to make the converter "work"much harder on the street at part throttle than most of the stuff I mess with.
FWIW, I have an FTI in one of my vehicles and have been very happy with it, Andi I know they do some mud racer stuff, that may be a good place to start.
There's going to be a world of difference between a typical 32-3500lb street strip car with a 4.11-4.88 gear and a 28" tall tire like I am typically messing around with, and something thats 5000 lbs with 4.10s and a big tall tire like that. A converter that might couple up quite nicely at part throttle in a vehicle that weighs 3200 lbs and has 28" tall tires could be a slipping mess at part throttle in something that weighs 5000+ lbs with tall overall gearing.

[e philpott]

So no recommendations on a torque converter, stall, etc? 

What does the Cam Co. recommend ?? I couldn't find any Cam info in this thread

[Drew Pojedinec]

I'm with FalconGeorge.
We can *guess* at what you need for a cam or convertor.
But I mean, guys do this all day everyday and are going to get you closer to what you want.

I'd suggest PTC or Broader Performance, as I've had highly positive experiences with both.

[HarleyJack17]

Here is the cam info if that helps. Really was hoping someone would have a guess or recommendation so maybe I had a baseline to back up what I get from the companies. Any good brands, or some to stay away from may be good too.

[falcongeorge]

Here is the cam info if that helps. Really was hoping someone would have a guess or recommendation so maybe I had a baseline to back up what I get from the companies. Any good brands, or some to stay away from may be good too.

You were just given THREE recommendations for companies that do good converters...FTI, Broader, and PTC.  If you are looking for someone to recommend TCI, that may take a while...

[Drew Pojedinec]

Ok...  an experience based suggestion.
The convertor in my car seems to stall around 3500 by the normal test.  I dunno, I really don't care about the "stall" as long as it does what I want it to.
I have 4.30 gears with 28 inch tall tires, a GV overdrive, car weights 4000lbs, convertor tightens up nicely around 3,000 when at low throttle input, as I asked PTC to make it that way as that is where I cruise.  Convertor doesn't really do anything in drive until I blip the throttle to 1200-1500, which is fine.
Camshaft is in the 240-250@.050 area in a 447ci FE.  I run a trans cooler that is massive.... because I drive like an idiot.

When I called PTC I told them the cam specs, the gearing, car weight, engine size, anticipated torque, cruise rpm, tire size, and EXACTLY what I wanted out of the convertor.  I think I talked to a fella named Lane.  Nice enough guy....  I'd previously filled out a questionaire about all this, he was really just calling to confirm and chat a bit to make sure we did it right the first time.  Took them a month to make the convertor, which he told me about up front.

My truck?  Shoot, I dunno, I think it's an autozone special that I found in the dirt at a junkyard.  10 years and still tickin.  I've got a spare 10inch convertor I keep threatening to put in the truck, because I hate fuel economy.

The real artistry in convertor design is not based around "stall" it is the inbetweens...  To make that happen, it seems you need to give the maker a realistic expectation of operational parameters.

Anyway, good luck.

[gt350hr]

  "I" have a little different opinion in a NON RACE CAR situation regarding torque converters. Again race cars are different!
    With modified engines my first priority is to idle in gear. Big cams usually hurt bottom end torque to the point where  a stock converter won't work.
    Next I try to keep the "stall" speed  below "Highway" speed so the converter is "locked up" and not "slipping" which adds tremendous heat on a highway cruise , besides killing any hope of fuel economy as Drew mentioned.
    Last I look at the diameter of the converter . Often  a smaller converter will have more "natural stall" than a larger one so occasionally using a smaller diameter ( if available) makes things work.
    When contacting a manufacturer "I" feel it's important for them to be totally familiar with what YOU are doing not just a drag race guy looking at a match in his companies catalog.  Contacting a shop or company that does off road style builds FIRST for a recommendation like you have done here might be a better source of information. It's easy to say "use a 3,500 stall"  but if you only need 2,800 you wasted money and if you got a 2,800 but needed a 3,500 the same goes.
     Just my opinion.

[falcongeorge]

  "I" have a little different opinion in a NON RACE CAR situation regarding torque converters. Again race cars are different!
    With modified engines my first priority is to idle in gear. Big cams usually hurt bottom end torque to the point where  a stock converter won't work.
    Next I try to keep the "stall" speed  below "Highway" speed so the converter is "locked up" and not "slipping" which adds tremendous heat on a highway cruise , besides killing any hope of fuel economy as Drew mentioned.
    Last I look at the diameter of the converter . Often  a smaller converter will have more "natural stall" than a larger one so occasionally using a smaller diameter ( if available) makes things work.
    When contacting a manufacturer "I" feel it's important for them to be totally familiar with what YOU are doing not just a drag race guy looking at a match in his companies catalog.  Contacting a shop or company that does off road style builds FIRST for a recommendation like you have done here might be a better source of information. It's easy to say "use a 3,500 stall"  but if you only need 2,800 you wasted money and if you got a 2,800 but needed a 3,500 the same goes.
     Just my opinion.

From what I understand, stall speed (let’s eliminate the external variables and talk in terms of K factor) is primarily a function of converter diameter and fin angle (there’s a LOT more to converter design than stall speed, but lets keep it simple for now) I am excluding all the external factors, like vehicle weight, rear gear, whether the car dead hooks or spins, ect, and JUST TALKING about the internal design features that affect k factor and I am not a converter expert by any means, I am just a guy who figures he should at least make an attempt to understand how the parts he uses actually work.
My experience is, for a given k factor, a smaller converter with more aggressive fin angles will work better in terms of part throttle lock-up characteristics than a larger diameter converter that generates the same k factor with shallower fin angles.
 In other words, if you build a 8” converter with a 195 k factor and a 10” converter with a 195 k factor, the 8” will be better at part throttle. For instance, the FTI lockup I have in my truck, is rated at “4000 stall” and it’s on a 9.5” core, and it works well enough at part throttle that the only time I bother locking the clutch is on the freeway.
I would also guess that if I pulled this converter out of my 3200lb, 4.56 geared 28” tall tire truck, and put it in your 5000lb 4x4 with 4.10s and 36” tall tires, it would be WAAAAY loose at part throttle, due to the increase in the load it is working against. Even though the K factor has stayed the same, it would act like a completely different converter. This is why I am trying to tell you that getting a specific converter recommendation from a guy with a typical 3500lb street strip vehicle is worse that a waste of time, it’s going to totally screw you up.
I know I am repeating myself, but I am not sure if the op is understanding the point I was making earlier.

[e philpott]

Consult your converter company for sure but I would say your going to be somewhere around 2500-ish stall

[falcongeorge]

Consult your converter company for sure but I would say your going to be somewhere around 2500-ish stall

Totally agree, and when you talk about ending up around “2500 stall” that will mean that you end up with a converter with a lower K factor than what you would get with an off the shelf converter you see advertised on summit as “2500 stall”, due to the vehicle weight and tire size.

[HarleyJack17]

I understand the entirety of everything discussed. What I did not realize is that the companies mentioned earlier actually make Converters...especially Broader(we sure about that?).
 
Thanks for the input fellas and I will reach out to a couple. I was only curious if anyone had any experience with a build similar and folks to stay away from.  I think this is out of the ball park for most on the forum here in this regard but you provided me with some "quality" converter folks to contact so thanks for that and input earlier when it started.

The truck is just a basic truck other than the engine build. The old 4x4s were pretty big stock as far as height and tire fitment.  With fresh factory springs a 38" tire will fit these old Highboys.
It is not a mud racer for certain, if it was it would pull a lot more RPM and definitely be running a different cam/intake combo and I sure would not have spent as much money as I have trying to redo stock items.

Just going to be my old school, every other daily driver and sleeper once done. Assuming axle hop wont be too bad and the cheap rear locker doesn't grenade if it hooks up.  May surprise a few kids in a stop light race...but no way I am running it to fast...drums on all four corners, lack of modern braking etc....its a tank after all.

Anyway, thanks for the input.