C6 Rebuild Questions-Newbie

[FirstEliminator]

The snap ring that holds the rear planet ring gear hub is not used with the tail housings that have a brake drum (like an RV) and I think with the short tail housing used with a divorced transfer case. A roller bearing in the tail housing locates the tail shaft.

[HarleyJack17]

1st Elim,
Thanks. I was scratching my head for a minute when checking what little reference material I have currently.  Hopefully my manuals I ordered will be in soon. I could probably wing it with out them but I would feel more confident having some reference points.

Drew,

I have it all laid out in groups. I have easy access to large flat pieces of cardboard at work  .  The large bearing was a surprise as was the lack of snap ring.

Maybe it was just me, but has anyone ever noticed that when you pull the servo out it seems to act like a permanent reservoir for fluid. Maybe I have not quite figured out the workings but it seemed like that thing had the same fluid it left the factory with. Nastiest of it all and all other fluid had been drained.

Am I the only one that would put the i.d. tag back on?    Too bad the PO scrapped it.   

[Falcon67]

Yes, helps to visualize the gear train LOL



No, you are not the only one that puts an ID tag back on - if it was there in the first place.  If it's a high perf thing with a billet servo, I put the tag in a drawer of the toolbox. 

[e philpott]

Servo's and Accumulators always look nasty even when the rest looks fine and really nasty when you have one with clutches burned

[Falcon67]

Here is an ASTG manual for the C6 - PDF found on the web:

http://shop.ukrtrans.biz/wp-content/uploads/catalogs/C6.pdf

[HarleyJack17]

Thanks for that link Falcon! I guess not having "extra" parts has always been a pet peeve of mine...glad to see I am not the only one.
 
That little snap ring in your pick is exactly what had me scratching my head! 

Definitely some extra wear on the clutches given all the crud in the pan and on the parts. Not looking forward to cleaning it all but it will be spotless when I am done.  Hell it took me close to two days off and on just to get the mud off the case to see the aluminum!  Think some of that Glyptal paint should have been standard issue on the driveline of these old Highboys!  Bet I shed 500 lbs of caked on mud off of it since the start of the project. 

[FirstEliminator]

It's been a while since I've built a C-6. The new stuff keeps me busy. A couple things I'd recommend are 4 clutches in the direct drum, billet servo, Superior shift kit. I used to just drill holes and shim springs in the valve body. But, the Superior kit works pretty good and it comes with a heavy pressure regulator spring. Make sure there are no ring grooves in the governor support. Best bet with this valve body is to take out every valve, lay them out on a clean rag in order. Polish each valve. If you have a drill press, put the valve end in the chuck and use some scotchbright moistened with solvent to polish the spinning valve. Also polish the modulator and governor valves. If you have a flat sharpening stone, hone the mating surfaces of the v-b and gov bodies. I prefer the using the gasket in the C-6 v-b. Some people leave it out, but it comes in the kit,  so I use it.   With snap rings that hold in clutches be sure to position the ends of the snap rings under lugs----cover the snap ring ends. Chances are you will need a #4 or #5 selective thrust washer behind the pump. Worn C-6's always have excessive endplay. 
    Does this C-6 have a screw in or push in modulator? There are different color stripe modulators for C-6:
   Black = gas
   Purple = low vacuum
   Green = diesel
   White = screw in
   If you have the screw in modulator and low vacuum from a bigger cam, you can use a Blue stripe modulator from an FMX.
     Modulator pin length can vary: Whether the modulator is screw in or push in it should make contact with the pin and have about a 1/16" gap between the modulator and case.

   It's after 11 and I'm still at the shop. I will try to think of some other points on getting the C-6 done on the first try. Sounds like a fun adventure.

[RJP]

To expand on what Mark said about valve bodies and the use of the separator plate gasket, in the past I left them out on the advice of people I though knew better than me and had some shifting problems, among other problems, a  low speed shift from 1st to second gear at 10-15 mph regardless of throttle position. I don't know if it was related to the lack of gasket or if it was a sticking 1-2 shift spool valve and it's circuit. It was not a throttling valve/modulator issue. Also it was not a governor problem as I went thru it before getting back into the valve body, checking all valves and their respective bores cleaning up minor scratches by spinning  the valves in a lathe and lightly touching the surfaces with oiled 1000 grit paper backed by a tool steel flat bar to insure not rounding off the valve's sharp edges.  I used the V/B gasket on reassembly and the trans shifted exactly as it should. It could have been a combination of problems but after that experience I always used the gasket [and the valve dressing procedure] and had no problems with valve bodies and shifting ever since. 

[HarleyJack17]

Thanks for the tips on the valve body and snap ring location guys. The trans has a push-in style modulator. To catch up from earlier posts, this is a C6 with short tail/fixed yoke. The F250 runs a divorced T-case. Definitely a few minor differences in it. Got my Ford Shop cd in today and will be digging through the info. Finished the tear down tonight. Hopefully over the next week or so I will get the parts groups disassembled and cleaned/inspected. Plan on posting a few pics as it progresses.

[HarleyJack17]

Reviving from the dead...

Finished up the C6 last night.  Once I have time to get all my pics together I will try to get the posted in the coming days.  The main thing I want to show is the difference in this short tail version vs. the long tail.  I know it had me scratching my head at first since it was my first and different from all info I had and could find. I also have some part numbers for it.  I know most folks don't mess with old 4x4 trucks but it may help someone one day and save someone some time and heart ache.
It really was not difficult, just a lot of parts to keep up with...assuming it works    Air checks and tolerance checks all came out good.  Time to paint it and get it sat in the frame!

I do need to order a torque converter. Anyone have a company they recommend to talk to? Any recommend size/stall vs. stock.
Got the kit from Broader so thought about calling him first.

1975 F250 4x4 Estimated Weight 5,000 Lbs.
4.10 Gears on 35" Tires
445 FE 480HP/550TQ Peak HP about 5,600, Peak TQ around 3,600- Strong down low for towing. Link below...forgive the archaic look, I was in a hurry.

https://www.fordfe.com/imageproxy.php?url=http://i1339.photobucket.com/albums/o719/harleyjack1/dynochart_zps79dff701.jpg


 

[falcongeorge]

I have "heard" that when you do the extra friction in the direct drum, leaving the wavy washer out can increase the chances of breaking the drum at the land.I haven't experienced this first hand, but then I haven't added the extra friction either. Any thoughts on this?

[Drew Pojedinec]

Direct would be hard to break I would think.
It isn’t like the high/rev clutch that gets shifted. From the moment you put the engine in gear and the transmission in drive, the direct drum is engaged.

Same logic.... that is why the smooth clutches go in the direct drum.
Again, by the same logic... why bother putting too many clutches in the drum that is going to be prone to slipping because it isn’t shifted.

[e philpott]

when you leave a Wave Plate out and install a flat steel what happens is you just took the Cushion out of the apply so it will bang into the gear missing the wave plate …. I used to see this happen on Turbo 400's reverse gear when you replace the wave with a flat it will bang hard into reverse even at idle speed with low Pump RPM/Pressure …. the "Bang " is what can be hard on Parts

[falcongeorge]

when you leave a Wave Plate out and install a flat steel what happens is you just took the Cushion out of the apply so it will bang into the gear missing the wave plate …. I used to see this happen on Turbo 400's reverse gear when you replace the wave with a flat it will bang hard into reverse even at idle speed with low Pump RPM/Pressure …. the "Bang " is what can be hard on Parts

That's what I figured, but I was wondering if the breakage is theoretical based on that line of reasoning, or if anyone has actually had it happen.

[Drew Pojedinec]

I have:
5 in the high/rev
5 direct, no wave plate
6 in low/rev

I have no clunk or anything going into direct.  Of course with a high stall convertor, putting the selector in drive doesn't really do much, the car will creep perhaps, but slowly.  In a stock vehicle, I could see a big bang as driveline parts are shocked.

Maybe other's have different experiences.