Best Street Cam/TC/Gear Combo for 428?

[gt350hr]

  fryedaddy,
       You are right , streetabiltiy is a matter of "opinion". Look at the Hot Rod Drag Week! My CJ is a day two , street strip deal with a bigger cam , headers and a C8AX oil pan. With the 4spd , I don't mind a cam that is 240/248 @.050 hydraulic cam

[plovett]

If its this Lunati Cheater, that's only 224-232-114, which is just a bit rougher than the old Ford c8ax-c at 220-230-116.
That cam was very streetable. It needed a converter but would do fine with a stock converter, even in a little 390.


http://www.lunatipower.com/Product.aspx?id=2269

IF that's the cam you have, you might not need or want a milder cam - it just might be the 3500-4000 stall and 4.11 gears (on the freeway???) that is the problem. That cam would do fine in a light mustang with say 3.50 gears and 2500 stall as stated above.

That's what I thought the cam was.  Bigger than a 206/220 factory CJ cam, but not huge.

[CV355]

I appreciate the feedback everyone!

Right now the cam gives a very rough idle, shakes the whole car at idle.  It smooths out nice once you're in the throttle a bit.  Maybe I'll do as was recommended here and leave the cam for now, get it tuned.  Tighter torque converter and 3.50 rear gears. 

If the cam is still an issue, I'll think about doing a roller setup.  At that point, I'd be putting aluminum heads on anyway.  Might be able to find some heads to lower SCR a bit. 

[Joe-JDC]

I have to disagree with everyone here.  The camshaft is the heart of the issue.  You can put 4.10 gears in a stock cam vehicle, and it drives smooth as silk.  A loose converter with a stock camshaft will not jerk or buck, but will slip at lower speeds.  I have had customers come back with camshafts at 230* and want their stock cams back.  It is all in what manners you are looking for in driving.  A stock CJ is nearly perfect for a street engine.  Ford did their homework on that camshaft.  I ran the Motorsports upgrade hydraulic camshaft and my power brakes were spotty after a quick stop.  The AA camshaft was actually a better street camshaft for idle and off idle manners.  Joe-JDC

[andyf]

I appreciate the feedback everyone!

Right now the cam gives a very rough idle, shakes the whole car at idle.  It smooths out nice once you're in the throttle a bit.  Maybe I'll do as was recommended here and leave the cam for now, get it tuned.  Tighter torque converter and 3.50 rear gears. 

If the cam is still an issue, I'll think about doing a roller setup.  At that point, I'd be putting aluminum heads on anyway.  Might be able to find some heads to lower SCR a bit.

A rough idle could be the cam but it could also be something else such as a vacuum leak, wrong timing, bad plugs, bad plug wires, incorrect carb adjustment, etc.

Do you have a wideband on the car? What does the vacuum gauge say? What is the timing?

I'd be surprised if a cheater cam ran good in a street car since that isn't what they are designed to do, but I also wouldn't be surprised to find a bunch of other tuning problems in a new build. Every home built car that I've ever worked on has had a bunch of issues. That is just the nature of the beast.

[CV355]

A rough idle could be the cam but it could also be something else such as a vacuum leak, wrong timing, bad plugs, bad plug wires, incorrect carb adjustment, etc.

Do you have a wideband on the car? What does the vacuum gauge say? What is the timing?

I'd be surprised if a cheater cam ran good in a street car since that isn't what they are designed to do, but I also wouldn't be surprised to find a bunch of other tuning problems in a new build. Every home built car that I've ever worked on has had a bunch of issues. That is just the nature of the beast.

Here's the problem- I bought the car last September and I have put 9 miles on it.  I think no matter what it needs a tune.  I'm definitely thinking that the cam needs to go.  Man I love the sound of it, but it's just too rough- shakes the whole damn car at idle.  If I was building a drag racing car, I'd keep it.  But my goal for this is weekend cruiser.

The entire build has ~2k miles on it from what I was told by the previous owner, original block, heads.

So what would be a good cam for this car?  I wouldn't mind a little lope/thump, but the current is excessive, especially being flat tappet.  Aggressive ramps and flat tappet scares me. 

[blykins]

Before you go swapping sticks, have someone do a quick run-down of the motor mounts, carb, etc.  Any way to verify that the flywheel is the correct flywheel?

If you come back to still wanting a camshaft, the results of the last 428CJ I did with a hydraulic flat tappet are in that link that I posted earlier. 

[WerbyFord]

A rough idle could be the cam but it could also be something else such as a vacuum leak, wrong timing, bad plugs, bad plug wires, incorrect carb adjustment, etc.

Do you have a wideband on the car? What does the vacuum gauge say? What is the timing?

I'd be surprised if a cheater cam ran good in a street car since that isn't what they are designed to do, but I also wouldn't be surprised to find a bunch of other tuning problems in a new build. Every home built car that I've ever worked on has had a bunch of issues. That is just the nature of the beast.

Here's the problem- I bought the car last September and I have put 9 miles on it.  I think no matter what it needs a tune.  I'm definitely thinking that the cam needs to go.  Man I love the sound of it, but it's just too rough- shakes the whole damn car at idle.  If I was building a drag racing car, I'd keep it.  But my goal for this is weekend cruiser.

The entire build has ~2k miles on it from what I was told by the previous owner, original block, heads.

So what would be a good cam for this car?  I wouldn't mind a little lope/thump, but the current is excessive, especially being flat tappet.  Aggressive ramps and flat tappet scares me.

Well I still don't think that 224-232-114 is a "rough" cam - the roughness could well be one of the many other issues folks have raised here - even a carb crudded up with ethanol/water sediment, etc. (Then again we aren't really SURE what cam you have in there, it could be quite a bit bigger than that, I am just ASSUMING those Lunati web specs)

BUT, if you really want a different cam, here are 3 that the factory (and I think most customers) thought were streetable. The durations are at .050 lobe:
206-220-116 hyd stock 428cj, also in 390gt, 428pi, and later in 351cj
A good clone for this cam is the common "RV" cam at 204-214-112
Another good clone is the Crower 270hdp at 210-220-112 (Werby's Wife's favorite cam)

220-230-116 hyd stock 429cj and 429pi
I ran this cam in my high school daily driver, and my girlfriend never complained. The cam didn't interfere with any of our planned activities.

228-228-114 solid stock 352/360hp, 390/375hp, 390/401hp, 406/385hp, 406/405hp, 427/410hp, 428/360pi, 289/271hp, 302boss, 429scj
This is the "AA" cam JDC mentioned above. A solid cam will idle a lot smoother than a hydraulic - it will act about 10 degrees smaller.
A good clone for this cam is the Comp 270s. I put this in my 88-year-old dad's build and he did almost 90 car shows with it, a real cruiser cam.


Any of these cams are GUARANTEED streetable cuz the factory said so & used em in many different engines, and they were all used in PI (cop) engines so they had to be pretty streetable.

[Joe-JDC]

If it has only 9 miles on it in months, then the gasoline is suspect at best.  My '55 Thunderbird's carburetor fuel will evaporate within a few days and be hard to start unless I add fuel to the bowl and charge the squirter before trying to start it.  The fuel today is pure junk if it has alcohol in it.  Joe-JDC

[gt350hr]

   Our California gas kills the o ring on the needle and seat assemblies. Start up and run dead rich . Change the o ring and back to normal. Yes this gas sucks!

[plovett]

So what specific cam do you have CV355?

Is it this one?

http://www.lunatipower.com/Product.aspx?id=2269

Product Description
Hydraulic Flat Tappet Cam. Lunati's version of the C60Z-B 428 CJ & 360 horsepower camshaft.
Advertised Duration (Int/Exh): 304/324
Duration @ .050 (Int/Exh): 224/232
Gross Valve Lift (Int/Exh): .481/.490
LSA/ICL: 114/110
Valve Lash (Int/Exh): Hyd/Hyd
RPM Range: 3000-6000
Includes: Cam Only

Part Number: 10331003
Previous Part Number: 10503

[CV355]

So what specific cam do you have CV355?

Is it this one?

http://www.lunatipower.com/Product.aspx?id=2269

Product Description
Hydraulic Flat Tappet Cam. Lunati's version of the C60Z-B 428 CJ & 360 horsepower camshaft.
Advertised Duration (Int/Exh): 304/324
Duration @ .050 (Int/Exh): 224/232
Gross Valve Lift (Int/Exh): .481/.490
LSA/ICL: 114/110
Valve Lash (Int/Exh): Hyd/Hyd
RPM Range: 3000-6000
Includes: Cam Only

Part Number: 10331003
Previous Part Number: 10503

10503- Yes I believe that it is based on the specs the previous owner told me.  Cannot confirm but it sounds correct.

I just put fresh gas in it in March with octane booster and stabilizer.  Got her running on Saturday- started right up first crank. 

I might do this in phases- torque converter, valvebody, and rear gears + tune.  Then if it's still not the way I like it, cam.

This cam is a real thumper.  Not that it's any real comparison, but I have fairly aggressive cams in my '14 GT500 and the streetability didn't suffer much.  It has some vibration at idle- sitting in traffic I get bounced around a little.  I'm ok with a little NVH. 

[blykins]

If that's the cam you have, something else is wrong.....that camshaft is pretty mild.  Low lift, fairly low duration, pretty long LSA.

The cam that I mentioned on the first page is considered pretty mild and the specs are more conservative than what you have.

[CV355]

If that's the cam you have, something else is wrong.....that camshaft is pretty mild.  Low lift, fairly low duration, pretty long LSA.

The cam that I mentioned on the first page is considered pretty mild and the specs are more conservative than what you have.

Sounds like it needs a tune no matter what then.  I'll see if phase 1 can be the torque converter, rear gears, valvebody (has a harsh reverse-manual right now), and a tune on the dyno. 

Regarding the cam, the previous owner said:  "Intake lift .481, exhaust .490, same as stock, think it is Lunati but it is considered a cheater cam."  The 10503 looked and sounded about right from what I found. 

 

[CV355]

I have to disagree with everyone here.  The camshaft is the heart of the issue.  You can put 4.10 gears in a stock cam vehicle, and it drives smooth as silk.  A loose converter with a stock camshaft will not jerk or buck, but will slip at lower speeds.  I have had customers come back with camshafts at 230* and want their stock cams back.  It is all in what manners you are looking for in driving.  A stock CJ is nearly perfect for a street engine.  Ford did their homework on that camshaft.  I ran the Motorsports upgrade hydraulic camshaft and my power brakes were spotty after a quick stop.  The AA camshaft was actually a better street camshaft for idle and off idle manners.  Joe-JDC

I may have mislead you a little here- the car drives smooth as silk once you're in the throttle.  It's just unruly on the street due to sitting at very high RPMs.  Idle is downright nasty, which I am now believing is more fuel and spark than cam.  Sounds amazing though. 

I agree and understand what you're saying- I think I just didn't explain the situation well.