Author Topic: Need Cam Suggestions  (Read 5069 times)

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aj

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Need Cam Suggestions
« on: April 19, 2018, 07:51:25 AM »
Going in a 70 gt500, 3:50 with mild converter.  Looking for good balance between decent idle/street manners and some good midrange ooomph.

Motor is 465CJ, 10.7:1,  with mildly ported CJ heads with 2.15 intakes and stock CJ exhaust manifolds. Looking for a hydraulic roller since I already have set of Morel hyd roller lifters.

My machinist mentioned comp xr-282hr as an off the shelf option.  But I know cam designs have evolved quite bit since I fiddled around with motors 25 years ago so there’s likely better options.
Adrian Jacobs
Weatherford, TX
1970 Shelby GT500 
1970 Boss 302

chilly460

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Re: Need Cam Suggestions
« Reply #1 on: April 19, 2018, 08:08:34 AM »
http://www.compcams.com/Company/CC/cam-specs/Details.aspx?csid=1569&sb=0

Didn't see a 282 but did see a 280hr in the catalog, imagine this is what he was suggesting?

I think in general it's the right "size" as dictated by the duration, 230/236 is about right for a likely 3800lb/auto/manifolds/3.50 gear deal at 465ci.   Rollers don't automatically mean more lift is run than a similar flat tappet, but one of their main advantage is allowing a more aggressive lobe so I'd shoot for .550-.560 lift which is still mild. 

Also, the stock manifolds will mean a custom cam will help quite a bit, likely with more duration split than that cam employs.  The stock CJ manifolds will back up the exhaust stroke so a bit more time to blowdown the exhaust would help, and maybe spread the centers a bit to keep the intake stroke clean

blykins

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Re: Need Cam Suggestions
« Reply #2 on: April 19, 2018, 08:24:56 AM »
The Xtreme Energy series from Comp sounds like a sewing machine.  They're noisy because of the lobe shape.

Do you have power brakes?  What's the stall speed on the converter?

You're gonna need quite a bit of advertised duration to get away from that 10.7:1 that you have going on, and even then you may experience some issues with pump gas. 
Brent Lykins
Lykins Motorsports
Custom FE Street, Drag Race, Road Race, and Pulling Truck Engines
Custom Roller & Flat Tappet Camshafts
www.lykinsmotorsports.com
brent@lykinsmotorsports.com
www.customfordcams.com
502-759-1431
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1968galaxie

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Re: Need Cam Suggestions
« Reply #3 on: April 19, 2018, 09:52:23 AM »
Do you know what the quench distance is? or deck height?
0.060"+ quench distance will not make things better.
Iron heads with 10.7:1 is really pushing it.

Custom cam for sure - by someone who knows these engines (Brent as an example).

aj

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Re: Need Cam Suggestions
« Reply #4 on: April 19, 2018, 10:07:00 AM »
Car has power brakes.  Jay at Broader Transmission  built the converter and described it as just a bit looser than stock.   Car has 3:50 gears.

I regret to say deck height is .020 below.  Wish it was tighter but thats what I’ll be forced to work with. 
Adrian Jacobs
Weatherford, TX
1970 Shelby GT500 
1970 Boss 302

blykins

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Re: Need Cam Suggestions
« Reply #5 on: April 19, 2018, 10:10:00 AM »
It's 10.7 with the pistons .020" in the hole and a .040" gasket?
Brent Lykins
Lykins Motorsports
Custom FE Street, Drag Race, Road Race, and Pulling Truck Engines
Custom Roller & Flat Tappet Camshafts
www.lykinsmotorsports.com
brent@lykinsmotorsports.com
www.customfordcams.com
502-759-1431
Instagram:  brentlykinsmotorsports
YouTube:  Lykins Motorsports

Falcon67

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Re: Need Cam Suggestions
« Reply #6 on: April 19, 2018, 10:11:39 AM »
You're gonna need quite a bit of advertised duration to get away from that 10.7:1 that you have going on, and even then you may experience some issues with pump gas.

Speaking from experience with a 10.5+ 351C with iron heads - this.  and the quench won't help, as noted.  Be well worth it to have someone like Brent spec the thing in and have it delivered to you.  That way all factors can be reviewed. 

aj

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Re: Need Cam Suggestions
« Reply #7 on: April 19, 2018, 11:14:29 AM »
Just reran compression calculator:

Bore:               4.162
Stroke:            4.250
Rods:               6.7
Gasket dia        4.400 (felpro 1020)
Gasket thick      .041
Deck height      10.155
Top Ring down   .330
Head CC           76cc
Pistons              7cc  (flat top with valve relief)
Piston to Deck   .020
Cubic inch          462
Compression     10.57
Adrian Jacobs
Weatherford, TX
1970 Shelby GT500 
1970 Boss 302

blykins

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Re: Need Cam Suggestions
« Reply #8 on: April 19, 2018, 11:29:57 AM »
Numbers jive.  You'd be at 10.7 without factoring in crevice volume.  So, your 10.6 estimate is probably correct if all of those numbers and measurements are correct. 

Not happy with the .060" quench distance, it's more of a detriment than higher compression. 

If you don't have flow numbers on the heads, I can probably estimate it.  A "mildly" ported CJ head will probably be somewhere around 260-270 cfm. 

I'm assuming that you're using a factory CJ intake.

Taking into account the torque converter, vacuum requirements, and your personal requirements, I'd be at:

283/291 advertised, 227/235 @ .050", 113 LSA on a 109 ICL, .565"/.588" lift.

It would be a billet steel camshaft and would require a steel distributor gear.  Valve spring pressures would need to be at 130-140 seat, 350 open.   Overlap would be at 61°, which would work your power brake booster  just fine.   
Brent Lykins
Lykins Motorsports
Custom FE Street, Drag Race, Road Race, and Pulling Truck Engines
Custom Roller & Flat Tappet Camshafts
www.lykinsmotorsports.com
brent@lykinsmotorsports.com
www.customfordcams.com
502-759-1431
Instagram:  brentlykinsmotorsports
YouTube:  Lykins Motorsports

aj

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Re: Need Cam Suggestions
« Reply #9 on: April 19, 2018, 12:06:52 PM »
Springs:  The Isky 8005s I recently purchased appear to have right pressures.  Also have POP shafts ,end stands and HS rockers waiting on the cam.

Approx Head flow:  You’d know better than me.  FWIW heads were just fitted with larger valves 2.15/166 Ferrea

Will be using stock CJ intake and exhaust manifold.

What is lead time on custom cam ?

Adrian Jacobs
Weatherford, TX
1970 Shelby GT500 
1970 Boss 302

blykins

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Re: Need Cam Suggestions
« Reply #10 on: April 19, 2018, 12:12:30 PM »
They run about a week to week and a half. 
Brent Lykins
Lykins Motorsports
Custom FE Street, Drag Race, Road Race, and Pulling Truck Engines
Custom Roller & Flat Tappet Camshafts
www.lykinsmotorsports.com
brent@lykinsmotorsports.com
www.customfordcams.com
502-759-1431
Instagram:  brentlykinsmotorsports
YouTube:  Lykins Motorsports

aj

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Re: Need Cam Suggestions
« Reply #11 on: April 19, 2018, 12:50:01 PM »
Brent,  thanks for info.  Just sent you an email.
Adrian Jacobs
Weatherford, TX
1970 Shelby GT500 
1970 Boss 302

scott foxwell

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Re: Need Cam Suggestions
« Reply #12 on: April 19, 2018, 01:10:38 PM »
I have this one for sale. Custom Straub grind for my 390 with mildly worked iron heads. New cam, never installed. Decided to get a little more aggressive.

221 / 230 @ .05
.340 / .320 lobe lift
.588 / .554
109 LSA
Opn-cls 4.5 36.5 / 47 3
277 / 286 @ .006
ICL 108

Falcon67

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Re: Need Cam Suggestions
« Reply #13 on: April 20, 2018, 09:57:18 AM »
Something else to keep in mind - not sure about the fuel quality where "you" are, but here the max is 91 (a couple of 93s sometimes) and everything is 10% ethanol.  It's pretty bad.  The trucks, hybrid, mower, yard stuff, generator do well on 87 - no problems, they don't seem to care.  Used to run the 10.5:1 351C with a 238/248 108 CL solid Crane on 91 pump fuel but that was mid 2000s.  Have a bigger hydro roller in it now and it will not run well on anything less than 2 parts 110 leaded and 3 parts pump 91.  I'm also having issues keeping intake gaskets intact.  On the 302, I just installed FelPro 1250S3 which have a stainless steel inside and should resist alcohol additives.  The basic Mr. Gasket parts were not holding up.  At this time, I don't see anything like that for the 351C so I just keep a lot of gaskets hanging on the wall.

Also - Pulling an intake shows the intake passages and the back of the valves to be covered in a very sticky maple syrup coating.  If you stuff the ports with paper towels, you'll not get all the paper out.  Bottom line for the fun cars is that I will be buying a drum of Sunoco 110 and a drum of Methanol.  If I run straight 110 in a car, no glue in the ports and fairly clean piston tops.  Because of the cost - $420/drum for 110, it's likely that we will consolidate the two door cars and run the one door car eventually on methanol along with the dragster.  A street/strip car on methanol seems a bit much but the fuel cost is less than half, even though you pump almost twice the fuel.  And no gunk if you manage it right.

scott foxwell

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Re: Need Cam Suggestions
« Reply #14 on: April 20, 2018, 11:11:31 AM »
Something else to keep in mind - not sure about the fuel quality where "you" are, but here the max is 91 (a couple of 93s sometimes) and everything is 10% ethanol.  It's pretty bad.  The trucks, hybrid, mower, yard stuff, generator do well on 87 - no problems, they don't seem to care.  Used to run the 10.5:1 351C with a 238/248 108 CL solid Crane on 91 pump fuel but that was mid 2000s.  Have a bigger hydro roller in it now and it will not run well on anything less than 2 parts 110 leaded and 3 parts pump 91.  I'm also having issues keeping intake gaskets intact.  On the 302, I just installed FelPro 1250S3 which have a stainless steel inside and should resist alcohol additives.  The basic Mr. Gasket parts were not holding up.  At this time, I don't see anything like that for the 351C so I just keep a lot of gaskets hanging on the wall.

Also - Pulling an intake shows the intake passages and the back of the valves to be covered in a very sticky maple syrup coating.  If you stuff the ports with paper towels, you'll not get all the paper out.  Bottom line for the fun cars is that I will be buying a drum of Sunoco 110 and a drum of Methanol.  If I run straight 110 in a car, no glue in the ports and fairly clean piston tops.  Because of the cost - $420/drum for 110, it's likely that we will consolidate the two door cars and run the one door car eventually on methanol along with the dragster.  A street/strip car on methanol seems a bit much but the fuel cost is less than half, even though you pump almost twice the fuel.  And no gunk if you manage it right.
Be sure you use good methanol like M1. Don't buy the recycled industrial stuff. You will regret it.