Gene Berg , (Weber Style) Carburetors

[Wortttie]

Hello
Has anyone ran Gene Bergs Weber Style Carbs, 58 mm bore on a FE Weber style manifold?  I want to dialog with someone who has.  I know there are alot of points that need to be addressed about engine specifications relative to using these.  I would be most happy to discuss application as it pertains to the engine, car and usage with the responder. 

Thank you

[jayb]

I ran the 48 IDAs during the intake testing for my book, and they really performed well, but ran out of gas above 550 HP or so.  I'd believe that the Berg 58mm carbs would make a lot more top end power than the 48 IDAs, and probably still maintain the midrange torque that made the 48 IDA setup so much better than the other intakes.  I looked into buying a set of those Berg carbs after I got done testing the 48 IDAs, but they were really expensive, like $1200 per carb if I recall correctly, so I didn't get them. 

By the way, I ran the Weber setup on 4 different engines, with radically different cam profiles, from a fairly mild hydraulic flat tappet to a couple of pretty aggressive solid rollers.  I never had any trouble that people warn about with these carbs, i.e. clouds of fuel vapor forming over the tops of the carbs at certain engine speeds.  I only ran to 7000 RPM, so maybe this is a higher speed phenomenon.  But my general impression is that concerns of this sort are way overblown...

[jimeast]

David Vizard provided a dyno test of a 427 (I am not sure if it was stroked) with a set of Gene Berg 58mm Weber's in one of his books.  HP and Torque was very impressive.  I'll try and find my book and take a snap shot of the graph later today.

*EDIT*  427 CI (not stroked) The graph is pretty small, not sure a pic would help much.  Broke 700HP at about 6,250RPM, Approx 630 ft-lb and 5,250RPM.  Did not see any info on comp ratio or Cam details

[c6rod]

Ran a Delorto 48mm set on my 427 BBC (sorry for the GM reference but cubes are cubes) many years ago and agree with the comments. Had run a 750 Holley and the Corvette 3x2 set up previously on the engine and the Weber styles gave a huge improvement in low and mid range torque but ran out of usefulness at 6000 RPM's. 58mm would have solved this problem but were hard to find back then. Any more cubes than 427 would make the 48's even more limited in RPM's

[feadam]

Check the club cobra forum, a guy with an ERA cobra had the 58 bergs, they looked amazing but not sure if he ever posted results on performance. He would probably let you know, Just can't remember his name but you could search it on the forum.

[jimeast]

I tried for several months to get a set of 58mm Berg carbs 10 yrs ago with no success.  The Berg website looks pretty much the same.  Are they available now?

[feadam]

This is the berg guy used on cobra

[Wortttie]

To everyone that has replied, thank you.  I am considering the option and may move forward.  My engine specs. as follows
520 CID / Current Hp 723@ 6400.  The current induction is a Tunnel Wedge with Quickfuel 750 CFM HP body carbs.  It will be interesting to try the Berg set up. 

Jay:  I have your Intake Comparo book.  Poor thing is completely warn out.  Used it many times to assist in decision making.  Thank you for a fine collection of information.

In anyone has anymore information relative to anything regarding the use of weber style carbs I am most interested.  Anything to do with intake porting.  I am interested in the top of the port short turn flow modifications.  If done what was the outcome? 

[jimeast]

I do not think the Berg setup is obtainable, unless a used pair comes up, or you have one.  Another Weber to consider acquiring is a JayCee.  They used to make a 62mm weber, they now offer a 51.5.  As I mentioned, I looked around quite a bit 10 yrs ago and the Berg were offered, but not available.  JayCee 62mm IDA was available back then, not sure what the status is now. 

[Cobra1]

Worttie,

These are my carbs and intake.

[BH107]

I heard of someone casting some new 58mm bodies some years back but I don't think the project was ever finished.

[BH107]

Worttie,

These are my carbs and intake.

Augie sure does nice work.

[Cobra1]

He sure does

[Cobra1]

Augie is one of the best out there is when it comes to Webers. I forgot how I found out about him but what I did find is that there is a very small network of really good Weber tuners out there. Augie's experience ranges from old Super Stockers to hot rods to old Formula 1 cars from the 50s and 60s. I've been told by more than one person that a very well known Weber tuner on the east coast who has a great website calls Augie when he's having trouble. it seems that alot of these guys cut there chops on Porsche's and Ferrari's as Webers are much more common in those applications. Augie was great to work with and very informative. Doesn't advertise or have a website. Pretty much word of mouth. He's in California but if you need someone else there's also Sherman Slay. He's been working on Weber's for 50 plus years and is a wealth of information. He's is in Virginia. I have both there numbers if needed

I can tell you it took several years to find these carbs. Although its my understanding Berg is getting ready to do another run I don't know when they will be available. The velocity stacks were custom made up to give an old school look as they come standard with billet stacks. Augie put on them 48ida dust screens, again to make them more old school looking. A few other things were done to the carbs to make them operate better. The bolt pattern is 48ida so adapters were made up to fit the manifold. And that manifold is a whole other story. It only works with High Riser heads. I was lucky to find a pair of BT as cast high risers. Had them worked on by BES. The manifold needed a ton of work. Had been painted black and was hogged out by a previous owner. Had to have it welded up.

If you don't want to wait for a set of Berg's; Jaycee's 51.5ida is an easier route although I'm not sure they can handle 520" 48ida's tend to lose steam above 400" and 6500rpm although they were pretty impressive on Jay's book.

[Wortttie]

Hello to all that originally posted to my inquiry about 58mm weber style carburetors.  I would like to reopen this dialog as now there are a newer design carburetor offered by Empi that is the needed 58mm.  VERY EXPENSIVE but I think these will be worth it.  My main reason to open this again is to ask Jay Brown a few questions about his testing of 48 in his book.  If jay does not mind responding to the following questions
1. Givent the cam size and subsiquent reversion caused by overlap did this condition cause any lower RPM issues at idle and 2500 and below RPM
2. Did you have to revise your fuel pressure to the carbs?
 
To save time and answer an obvious upcoming question why are I not considering stacked fuel injection.  Because I dont want to deal with changing my slip fit headers on my Cobra and contending with revising cam timing to increase idle vacuum. 

Thank you
Phil