What FE intake manifolds don't work with the lifter valley pan?

[jholmes217]

I posted this on Ford Fe.com, but didn't get many responses.  The professional FE engine builders seem to monitor this site more, so I'll ask the same question here.

I remember recently someone (Brent?) saying they don't use the lifter valley pans because some aftermarket intake manifolds don't work with them. Does anyone know what manifolds don't work with the pans?

[blykins]

The reason I don't use them is mainly because I don't see the need for them.  Plus if you're running a roller cam, you about have to cut them into pieces to get them to clear anyway. 

As far as a comprehensive list of all that interfere, I can't really say because I don't use the tins, but I have heard guys talk about them interfering with the BT 2x4, Streetmaster, and Victor. 

There's a lot of stuff around that area that will keep an intake manifold from sealing correctly....even the head gasket tabs will hold the intake up off the heads if you don't bend them down.

[Drew Pojedinec]

No issues whatsoever getting the valley pan to fit a BT 2x4.
My engine uses the valley pan and rocker tins.

Rocker tins require some trimming on my intake gaskets, and the valley pan needs the head gaskets to get knocked down to hold it in place.  Intake won't fit with 1020 felpros without knocking it down.  This is all very basic stuff, anyone should be able to handle it.

[jayb]

I'll bet the valley pan can be made to work with any FE intake, but with some its going to require trimming or other modifications.  I don't have a comprehensive list of which intakes it will work with in stock form.  I've found that what Brent said about the head gasket tabs needing to be bent down is a regular problem with quite a few intakes; the Victor comes to mind.  If you've got to bend those tabs down, you will probably have to modify the valley pan too, if you want to use it...

[Drew Pojedinec]

If you've got to bend those tabs down, you will probably have to modify the valley pan too, if you want to use it...

I thought the purpose of the head gasket tabs WAS to hold down and lock the valley pan in place?

[jholmes217]

Jay, you and Brent may have actually answered the reason I was asking the question. 

Here's some background.  I finished my 428 and installed it a couple summers ago.  I am using the lifter valley pan, and have had problems ever since, including 3 intake changes.  I initially installed a Blue Thunder 4v, then a Streetmaster, and then back to the Blue Thunder again.  My thinking was if I have to take off the intakes anyway, I might as well see which seems to have better performance.  Rear china wall leaks is why was doing the intake changes.This is my 1st FE.  All others previous engines I seriously tinkered on were 289s and 302s.

Previous to this thread, I've never heard of bending the head gasket tabs down, and as Drew said, was using them for the lifter valley pan.  I am now wondering if this may be at least a major reason for my oil consumption, smoke, and fouled spark plugs, and problems with oil leaks in the rear China wall?   Thoughts?  Pictures of what those tabs should look like after bending?   

[blykins]

FE's are a whole 'nother animal when it comes to sealing the intake manifold.  The first issue is that the intake gaskets are always going to be under oil.  It's not a situation like a SBF where the intake gasket/intake manifold flange is just susceptible to splash from the valley.  On an FE, the intake gaskets are susceptible to all the oil raining down and draining from the cylinder head area. 

Intake manifold geometry is very crucial.  If the flanges are not on the correct angle, it will allow for a gap, which will allow for oil to be sucked in. 

Yes, the head gasket tabs can hold an intake off the head.  That's a very common problem and it's pretty much SOP for me to just knock them down. 

If you're swapping intakes back and forth and still experiencing a problem, I would make sure that the tabs are not holding the intake up and I would make sure that if you're using cork for the china wall gaskets, that they are not too thick.  That would hold the intake up as well. 

When I install an intake, I first make sure that the angles are correct and the intake doesn't need to have the flanges milled.  I then silicone the intake gaskets to the heads.  I also don't use cork, but I use the silicone instead, so there are no issues with the cork being too thick or thin.  I also use another layer of sealant on top of the intake gaskets and then install the intake manifold. 

If you think the valley pan is giving you fits, then you can just leave it out.   However, you need to at least double check that it's not causing an issue by holding the intake up. 

Here's a pic of the head gasket tabs being knocked down on an intake gasket mock-up....

[jholmes217]

Thanks Brent.  My thought for using the valley pan was too help keep hot oil off the bottom of the intake.  Sounds like I need to rethink that.  The picture was very helpful.  I know to bend those tabs down flush as possible with the block now.  This forum is awesome!

[blykins]

Everyone has their own opinions and thoughts on it, but I have personally never used a valley pan, even on 351C engines that have no water running through them and stay pretty hot by nature. 

[jayb]

If you've got to bend those tabs down, you will probably have to modify the valley pan too, if you want to use it...

I thought the purpose of the head gasket tabs WAS to hold down and lock the valley pan in place?

Yes, and they also hold the intake gaskets in place with those locking tabs.  But, for some reason a lot of the intake manifolds out there are cast so that they interfere with the head gasket tabs.  If you knock them down they will still hold a valley pan in place.

[Drew Pojedinec]

Nice to see ya using those intake gaskets Brent.  I'm a huge fan of that material and it is really common where I work.  (makes a good exhaust gasket as well).  We just get sheets of the stuff in and cut to fit.

[blykins]

I don't always use them.  They are Blue Thunder intake gaskets and had them with a set of Barry's CNC ported heads.   I'm mainly a Mr. Gasket kinda guy. 

[chris401]

I posted this on Ford Fe.com, but didn't get many responses.  The professional FE engine builders seem to monitor this site more, so I'll ask the same question here.

I remember recently someone (Brent?) saying they don't use the lifter valley pans because some aftermarket intake manifolds don't work with them. Does anyone know what manifolds don't work with the pans?

You must have missed the responses. Right in line with you question.

http://www.network54.com/Forum/74182/thread/1484859932/last-1484953188/View+Thread

[jholmes217]

The engine in my car was already rebuilt once when I got it, so it's been opened up before, and I didn't note if the tabs were bent down when I took it apart to rebuild it.  Did the factory bend those tabs down also?

[jayb]

No, but the factory manifolds didn't interfere with the tabs.  A lot of the aftermarket intakes do.