Timing gear install

[ChiefDanGeorge]

I could really use some pointers and info on installing the timing gears on my 390 build. I got the Ford full roller timing setup.

I've been reading and searching but I cannot find out for sure if I need a washer behind the cam gear. I've got the thrust plate setup, using a '69 ish block.

I've got a Scat crank and an original balancer spacer. The keyway in the spacer is not very deep, and is a different width than the long keyway at the end of the crank snout. There is another keyway in front of the one for the crankshaft gear, is that the one the spacer uses?

DO I need an oil slinger on the crank gear?

I got the crankshaft gear on, however I can't get it back off, not sure if the woodruf key is a bit off, but gear won't seem to budge. Not really sure I need to get it back off as I can get chain and cam gear on, however anyone have any advice on pulling one? I borrowed a 3 arm puller, however the gear is too small for the arms and of course with the snout, the smaller gear pullers don't have enough length to reach the back of the gear.

Sorry for the bombardment of questions, had a buddy helping me, but he's gone awol and I am trying to get this build done and this is my first build.

[My427stang]

1 - You do not need a washer behind the cam gear, that was for early timing sets, not sure anyone even sells a top gear like that now, and definitely not for the FMS roller.  However, you do need a washer on the cam bolt that captures the dowel from backing out.

2. SCAT cranks use Chevy-style woodruff keys.  However, I have had to grind/file all but one down, the one I didn't I used an old key, so it could have already been ground or shaped differently.  Some guys run only one, I use both slots for the timing gear along with the key stock for the balancer.

3. The oil slinger has been a debate for a long time.  I cannot say definitively that you NEED one.  However, I have never seen one leak without one (which is what I thought it was for) However, Blair brought up oiling, and looking at how it fits into the timing cover with the lip above it, I can confidently say that I think it directs more oil to the lower gear.  I used to use them because I thought it protected the seal, now I use them because I like the way it directs oil.  However, I know many guys successfully leave them out too

4. If I have a stuck lower gear I use 2 small pry bars at the same time, they usually move easy enough, although you feel silly trying to use two bars at the same time   However, if it is fully seated against the crank, and you can get the top gear on, then you could leave it.  Often I find that if the lower gear isn't all the way on it is easier to slide the top gear onto the dowel.

[blykins]

I'm with Ross...you can use two pry bars, but it sure makes you feel silly...LOL  I do have a gear puller that will pull one off.    It's not a 3-arm, but just a simple 2-arm puller that has right angles on the ends instead of the curvy slide-hammer style fingers.  It's deep enough to swallow the snout.

 

[ChiefDanGeorge]

Thanks for the info! I was getting confused the more I read about the washer and the one YouTube video I watched that showed the assembly, the guy was using a washer.
What I am still not sure about though is the spacer. Does that one need a half height key?

1 - You do not need a washer behind the cam gear, that was for early timing sets, not sure anyone even sells a top gear like that now, and definitely not for the FMS roller.  However, you do need a washer on the cam bolt that captures the dowel from backing out.

2. SCAT cranks use Chevy-style woodruff keys.  However, I have had to grind/file all but one down, the one I didn't I used an old key, so it could have already been ground or shaped differently.  Some guys run only one, I use both slots for the timing gear along with the key stock for the balancer.

3. The oil slinger has been a debate for a long time.  I cannot say definitively that you NEED one.  However, I have never seen one leak without one (which is what I thought it was for) However, Blair brought up oiling, and looking at how it fits into the timing cover with the lip above it, I can confidently say that I think it directs more oil to the lower gear.  I used to use them because I thought it protected the seal, now I use them because I like the way it directs oil.  However, I know many guys successfully leave them out too

4. If I have a stuck lower gear I use 2 small pry bars at the same time, they usually move easy enough, although you feel silly trying to use two bars at the same time   However, if it is fully seated against the crank, and you can get the top gear on, then you could leave it.  Often I find that if the lower gear isn't all the way on it is easier to slide the top gear onto the dowel.

[ChiefDanGeorge]

Do you know what the brand is? The couple I saw with right angles where either not deep enough or way too thick to get behind the sprocket.

I'm with Ross...you can use two pry bars, but it sure makes you feel silly...LOL  I do have a gear puller that will pull one off.    It's not a 3-arm, but just a simple 2-arm puller that has right angles on the ends instead of the curvy slide-hammer style fingers.  It's deep enough to swallow the snout.

[My427stang]

The lower timing gear and the spacer use the two small keys.  The balancer uses the square key stock.

As far as the puller, my Snap-on puller will grab it, I can get you a part number this weekend, but they usually aren't stuck that hard, they are slip fit.  So I haven't needed to pull it out for a lower gear

[jayb]

You must be one lucky guy, Ross, every single one of those crank gears that I get seem to require a puller to get it off.  Years ago I bought a Craftsman puller that was deep enough to do the job, and just ground the ends until they would slip behind the crank gear. 

[XR7]

I've had trouble with them also. Usually have to file/sand the inside of the gear just to get them on... and also the top of the key. I guess that is why they stay on for awhile (on a refresh) and a real bugger to get back off once that time comes.

[ericwevans]

x2 on the washer to keep the dowel pin in.  I reused the original bolt and washer on my last timing chain install and much to my surprise when I pulled the timing cover a couple months ago the dowel pin had walked out enough that it had made minor contact with the cover.  As I said, it had a washer on it and since it was the same one I pulled out I never checked to make sure it covered the dowel pin and come to find out it didn't, so double check that on your install.

[ChiefDanGeorge]

I've got a washer, but the fuel pump eccentric would hold the dowel in as well correct?

I did try getting the gear to budge with my pry bar, not much luck, will borrow another one today.

x2 on the washer to keep the dowel pin in.  I reused the original bolt and washer on my last timing chain install and much to my surprise when I pulled the timing cover a couple months ago the dowel pin had walked out enough that it had made minor contact with the cover.  As I said, it had a washer on it and since it was the same one I pulled out I never checked to make sure it covered the dowel pin and come to find out it didn't, so double check that on your install.

[blykins]

If it's a 2-piece eccentric, yes, it will hold the dowel in because it has the tab.  If it's a one-piece eccentric, then you will need a washer. 

[Barry_R]

x about a hundred on the snug gears - usually need to detail them a touch to get a snug slip fit.  More often the key (big surprise that a $1 keystock probably made in a fourth world country ain't perfect...).

And I will add my thoughts that - if you have a two piece eccentric - - you need a one piece eccentric....and a washer.

[ChiefDanGeorge]

Got it off, pulled the woodruf key out and then did a bit of filing on a new key.
The issue is still the spacer keyway is just not very deep. Seems like with the woodruff keys I got from O'Reilly, I'd need to do quit a bit of filing.

[ChiefDanGeorge]

Sorry for the continued question  bombardment, but I'm still confused on the balancer spacer. The keyway for the balancer is 1/4" and on the Scat crank, it's about 2" long. I cut a key 2" long but then realized the spacer covers part of that keyway. Is that normal? So I should cut the key down to just the length of the remaining exposed snout for the balancer?

[blykins]

The key for the balancer has to be short. 

Push the spacer on and bottom it out against the timing gear, then just measure how much snout you have sticking out past the spacer and cut the key for that.  Should end up being around 3/4" or so.