This is getting frustrating...new 445 reluctant to start.

[Heo]

something is not right  there. Hard to say what without
seing it in person......when you have it backed of so you
have some slack in the rocker can you.....press down
the lifter.....hard to explain in English what im trying to say

[Yellow Truck]

Heo - I think what you are asking is - can we compress the lifters? I haven't tried pressing down on it directly, but if the valve springs don't have enough force to do it I don't think my fingers will be able. We turned the adjustment screw in 3 or 4 turns and the pushrod side never moved.

The engine has not been run in a month, and I note in reading Howie's notes he suggests getting the engine warm before adjusting the rockers.

My friend was wondering if we had managed to crush the lifters, but had we done that we would have had lots of play for the adjusters to take up, we had MUCH less than when we set it up before firing it.

[Heo]

Yes thats what im asking.....is all the lifters the same?
Manage to Crush all the lifters sounds strange.  What if you
set them loose and start the engine and try to adjust them
then

[Barry_R]

Go one at a time.  Cam definitely on the base circle/lowest lift point for each one.  Back adjustment off completely.  Tighten until the free loose vertical movement is taken up - you should be able to feel that.  Then go down on the adjuster one full turn.  That is where you stop and tighten the lock nut.  You are done - go to the next valve, rotate the engine to the lowest lift point and do it again.

And do not tighten the mounting studs to 50+ pounds on an FE unless you enjoy getting helicoil practice.  Those instructions sound like they are for the T&D race rockers.  I think your's are the street setup.  The 20 pounds is for the locknut while holding the adjuster with a hex key.

[Yellow Truck]

Barry,

Thanks for the reply. I understand each cylinder fires once per two revolutions of the crank, so it is 90 degrees between TDC for each cylinder in the firing order, plus checking the rocker positions, so getting to the base circle should not pose a problem.

I will do as you advise, but I am curious - what do you think is going on? Are the lifters just full of oil and not leaking down because the oil is at 55 to 60 F? Are the pushrods too long (i.e. I messed up the measurements)?

Now I have only tested the adjustment on the #1 cylinder rockers, and on those two there is NO up and down movement at fully backed out. Based on what I saw today, at one full turn down the rockers will have moved considerably, and I assume the valves will be open a crack. How will this work? Have you seen this before? On the video you can clearly see the rockers are moving at 1/2 turn down from the fully backed out position.

I'll have a go at it in the morning - after I remove the pine cones that the local mad squirrel has stuffed under the hood. Today I removed over 50 that it had hidden in the slots under the hood! When I'm done I'll put some oil in it and start it and report on the results.

[jmlay]

I vote for push rods too long causing pre-load on the lifter. If you back the adjuster all the way out & you can NOT feel a very slight bit of up and down movement pre-load exists on the lifter. Remember you have lubrication on both ends that will make it much easier to turn even with a slight bit a pre-load. Either you are not backed off all the way or the push rod is too long.

[Yellow Truck]

Barry - the T&D instructions I posted are from their website. The paper instructions that came with the parts call for 60 inch-lbs for the studs, then 25 to 30 ft-lbs for the nuts.

I was curious what they meant by 5/20 ft-lbs for the adjuster screw jam nut. The same instruction appears in the paper and on-line instructions. I gather you are saying that should be 20 ft-lbs.

It is raining again today and the truck is outside (hence the mad squirrel filling the hood with pine cones) but if I get a break I'll jump on it.

[blykins]

Don't worry about TDC, firing once per two revolutions, etc. 

Easiest and most accurate way to run the valves is the EVO method that we speak about frequently.  Hard to mess that up.  Then follow Barry's instructions on setting preload.

If you have a pushrod length checker, best be checking length again in case you are hanging the valves open.  However, if you can add preload and not push the valve spring down, that's not your problem. 

[Jason R]

Paul, I see the same rocker and valve movement on my hydraulic lifter motors when setting the valve adjustment. Once you take the slack out of the pushrod. (mine are always sloppy loose with the correct pushrods and the adjuster backed out)  Then go the one turn and you will see the rocker and valve open a little because the lifter is full of oil. It takes a like 15 to 20 seconds for the lifter to bleed a little oil out as the spring pushes the valve back shut. It just closes slow so it's hard to see with the eye. If you put a dial indicator on the spring retainer you would see clearly it comes open .040-.050" quickly as you adjust then slowly creeps back to close as the lifter bleeds enough oil to accommodate the adjustment. If you work through Barry's procedure you'll be there assuming your pushrods are correct? But you've been running it this way so it seems this adjustment can only verify another problem exists or be an improvement.
Jason

[Barry_R]

They are telling you to snug tighten the adjuster jam nut after setting the position - not to torque the snot out of it.  I have seen guys break the adjuster at the jam nut because they felt they needed to get it "good and tight".

[Yellow Truck]

Brent - I had to look up the EVO method, but it seems pretty obvious. Easier than jumping around following the firing order.

Barry - I hear you about not over torquing. I did buy a 5 to 50 ft-lbs torque wrench and so far I've only done 15 ft-lbs when torquing them.

[Yellow Truck]

Ok - many thanks, especially to Howie for recognizing it. I re-did the pre-load as recommended. On re-test the compression seemed unchanged (I did squirt some oil in each cylinder since it was the first start in a month and I had drained all the oil).

It runs much better, not yet happy with it but we are now were we can start working on tuning.

https://youtu.be/qTVXTVqgY3g

The idle is a bit high, but the throttle response is very good. No trouble breaking the tires loose at 15 mph in second gear.

Now I need to get the new headers on it and do some tuning.