This is getting frustrating...new 445 reluctant to start.

[My427stang]

You are getting good advice, so my addition will be minor

- Too tight valves = backfire and poor running
- Backfire could have taken out PV = rich mixture through entire RPM range = additional soft performance and explains plugs

Some gee-whiz info

I find the 1 1/4 out on all 4 to be real rich.  I typically see a carb on a good running engine to be 1 1/8 or so out on a primary only carb, and on a 4 corner idle, 3/4 out.   AFTER you check your lifter preload, I'd likely see how the adjustment changes, because that would make your idle very rich

I don't consider it causal, because it would only really affect idle, I sort of expect you'll be replacing a PV, but the valve adjustment is the first thing to check

[cammerfe]

A faulty power valve, in my experience, will be easy to see since the diaphragm will be loose and 'bulged' on one side.

KS

[RJP]

To add: Cranking compression will be low with the raw fuel the engine has ingested. The cyl. walls are gas washed. Try squirting some oil into the cyls. and spin the engine over to work the oil into the rings and retest compression.

[ScotiaFE]

To add: Cranking compression will be low with the raw fuel the engine has ingested. The cyl. walls are gas washed. Try squirting some oil into the cyls. and spin the engine over to work the oil into the rings and retest compression.

I'd probably change the oil before the next fire up.
Once he gets them valves set that thing will spring to life and off he goes.
Better do it now. 

[Yellow Truck]

I changed the oil after the initial fire, the oil in it has 60 minutes of running time.

Raining again today so I haven't touched it.

[fekbmax]

Maybe you shoulda put that bad ass FE in a boat instead, lol

[My427stang]

I changed the oil after the initial fire, the oil in it has 60 minutes of running time.

Raining again today so I haven't touched it.

His comment is because the oil is gas saturated, not because it's worn out.

Man it rains a lot where you are

[Yellow Truck]

Good point about the oil/gas saturation.

The rain is VERY strange. We average 16.4 inches a year and 113 wet days a year. Saturday looks good.

[Yellow Truck]

Guys, I appreciate the help, but I'm taking some advice from my friend who is suggesting I get the new headers on it before I put any more miles on it. This means early September because I won't see them for a week and I have to do a lot of travelling in August. The time I have I need to portion out and part of that needs to be spent on the motorhome as I'll be taking it out for a couple of weeks.

You will hear back from me in a month.

[Yellow Truck]

I'm back on it. I'm now re-setting the lifter pre-load, and the T&D instructions, combined with Barry's, were to turn the adjusting screw in one turn, then measure the length for the pushrods, and order them that length. Then with pushrods in place turn down one turn to engage the pushrods, and then two more turns after that.

With the engine at TDC I just backed off #1 rockers and what I found probably confirms Howie's suspicions. Fully backed out the pushrod turns freely but has no up/down movement. I can turn the adjustment screw in 1/8 of a turn and the pushrod now won't rotate. Turn the adjustment screw in 1/4 turn and the rocker starts to go down, at 1/2 turn the valve is dropping.

The original adjustment was 3 full turns down. I am stumped, I assume the lifters are now filled with oil and are providing significant pressure on the rockers. My question - the T&D instructions are below - should the rocker move at all when I'm setting the pre-load? How much pre-load should I use given that at 1/4 turn the rocker is starting to tip?

Video of the rockers moving after 1/4 turn https://youtu.be/zqeiVXvb2AM

T&D Instructions

3. DETERMINE CORRECT PUSHROD LENGTH
Place a pushrod length checker into a lifter and install a rocker arm assembly. Be
sure the cam is rotated to the base circle. Seat the bottom of the adjuster screw up
against the recess in the rocker arm and turn the adjuster screw clockwise one full
turn down. This is the initial adjuster position. Adjust the pushrod length tool to the
proper length, remove from the engine, and measure its overall length.
The rocker arm should not be operated with the adjuster screw more than one turn
up or down, from the initial adjuster position. Doing so can cut off the flow of oil to
the rocker arm.
4. FINAL ASSEMBLY
After all of the stand heights have been set; check the head bolt torque to be sure it
is set to factory specifications. Put the rocker stand back on and place a rocker
and shaft back on the stand to assure good rocker to valve alignment and
torque the stand attaching bolts to 55/65 ft-lbs. When the stands are aligned and
tightened down, place the rocker arm and shaft assemblies on the stands and
tighten the shaft hold down nuts to 25 ft-lbs. After all of the rockers have been
tightened down, set valve lash and torque the adjuster screw jam nut to 5/20 ft-lbs.


BTW does anyone know what 5/20 ft-lbs means (last part of the T&D instructions)?

[Heo]

Are you sure you dont have solid lifters?

[Yellow Truck]

I surely do not. They are hydraulic roller lifters.

When I did measurement for the pushrods I turned the screws down on full turn and used a measurement pushrod. When we installed them they turned down THREE full turns and I don't remember the rockers moving. BTW I did the measurements and initial installation with the help of friend who is both a diesel mechanic and a reasonably experienced builder (works on mud trucks, his own 521 (based on a 460) in a 67 F100, dirt bikes, you name it. My friend is VERY fastidious and I can't believe neither of us would have noticed the rockers moving when we did the initial installation.

[Heo]

Looks like you have solid lifters in the video
How hard do you pinch the push rod with your
fingers when you rotate it? if you pinch hard enough
you can rotate it even when you have bottomed the lifter

[Heo]

Its more like when you feel slight resistans on the pushrod
than not bee able to rotate it atleast with my fingers

[Yellow Truck]

It is not a case of I can't turn it, more that it doesn't turn easily. If I really grip it, yes I can turn them. That is not the issue, the issue was that the engine was running reasonably well on initial start - it was hard to get it to start, but when it started it ran fairly smoothly.

After that it ran really rough and showed lower cylinder pressure than expected (125 psi). Some of the folks on the forum suggested I was hanging the valves, and I think they may be right.

Question now is where to set the pre-load if anything beyond 1/4 turn is lowering the rocker (and I assume beginning to crack the valve)?