New FE Block, Heads, and Intakes on the horizon...

[jayb]

I voted several days ago,then I started thinking.....
So now I have questions.
would the raised cam work with the available intakes (RPM for example) the push rod angle will change correct?
could the re-centered block be used in a less than all out engine,again with an Ed,or Survival head?
I know it seems dumb to use a "full race" block in a mild(ish) build but if the same casting can be used as a base for a light weight FE
then the market should be larger.
With the marketing threads above I cant see anybody loving FEs enough to drop a few $mil on one block much less two. But maybe one block that can go from 427,428 to 550 inchs would have a larger market?

Now features I'd like to see in an aluminum block:
O ring seal the water pump, O ring seal the oil galleys,core holes (freeze plugs) and cam plug.
Do away with the oil filter adapter just thread the side of the block for -10 strait threads,another O ring.

Use an alloy that has minimal thermal expansion. 
 Rib the heck out of it.

Using the raised cam version I think it is likely that the pushrod holes in a stock intake would have to be massaged to fit, especially towards the bottom.  Nothing that couldn't be handled with a die grinder and a couple hours of work, and it wouldn't leave the intake unusable on a stock engine, so that's probably not a big deal.

A spread bore center block could certainly be used on a less than full race engine.  What you have to be careful of is whether the spread bores will still line up with the stock chambers in stock heads.  I've already had to deal with that with my spread bore engine, and have found that moving to a bore spacing of 4.700" and a bore of 4.500" will allow the stock chamber to fit.  If you went smaller than a 4.500" bore on a 4.700" bore spacing, the bore might start overlapping the stock chamber, which would compromise the head gasket seal.  And of course a 4.800" bore spacing with a 4.600" bore is not workable with stock heads.  A little earlier in the thread I described a 445" 390 stroker engine that went to 540" with the 4.7/4.5 block, using the existing heads, the stock cam location, and the 4.25" stroke crank and rods that were already in the engine.  I figured for about $7500 you could pick up almost 100 cubic inches with this approach.

[Joe-JDC]

Sundial!  Yes, that is the problem!  Jay, at ~50 years old, just about anything is possible for a healthy young man.  If you are as engaged with your family as possible, and you have the resources and connections, then open the door, and if it is meant to be, it will all fall in place with your guidance.  Enjoy your youth while you still can, and enjoy your family while they are still around.  When you get my age, things still are enjoyable, but other things become more important than cars, engines, or horsepower.  Age has a way of taking the edge off all your skills, and you slow down whether you want to or not.  In another 20 years, you will have a whole different set of values and desires.  BTDT.   Going on an Alaska cruise with my sweetheart of 50 years for our anniversary.  Hope to see you next month.  Joe-JDC

[482supersnake]

I think this would all be really exciting but I'm not sure of the amount of market that is available.
As for heads I think a cast version of the billett canted valve heads would be a great option.

[Cyclone03]

I voted several days ago,then I started thinking.....
So now I have questions.
would the raised cam work with the available intakes (RPM for example) the push rod angle will change correct?
could the re-centered block be used in a less than all out engine,again with an Ed,or Survival head?
I know it seems dumb to use a "full race" block in a mild(ish) build but if the same casting can be used as a base for a light weight FE
then the market should be larger.
With the marketing threads above I cant see anybody loving FEs enough to drop a few $mil on one block much less two. But maybe one block that can go from 427,428 to 550 inchs would have a larger market?

Now features I'd like to see in an aluminum block:
O ring seal the water pump, O ring seal the oil galleys,core holes (freeze plugs) and cam plug.
Do away with the oil filter adapter just thread the side of the block for -10 strait threads,another O ring.

Use an alloy that has minimal thermal expansion. 
 Rib the heck out of it.

Using the raised cam version I think it is likely that the pushrod holes in a stock intake would have to be massaged to fit, especially towards the bottom.  Nothing that couldn't be handled with a die grinder and a couple hours of work, and it wouldn't leave the intake unusable on a stock engine, so that's probably not a big deal.

A spread bore center block could certainly be used on a less than full race engine.  What you have to be careful of is whether the spread bores will still line up with the stock chambers in stock heads.  I've already had to deal with that with my spread bore engine, and have found that moving to a bore spacing of 4.700" and a bore of 4.500" will allow the stock chamber to fit.  If you went smaller than a 4.500" bore on a 4.700" bore spacing, the bore might start overlapping the stock chamber, which would compromise the head gasket seal.  And of course a 4.800" bore spacing with a 4.600" bore is not workable with stock heads.  A little earlier in the thread I described a 445" 390 stroker engine that went to 540" with the 4.7/4.5 block, using the existing heads, the stock cam location, and the 4.25" stroke crank and rods that were already in the engine.  I figured for about $7500 you could pick up almost 100 cubic inches with this approach.

The direction I was heading is one block,many uses.  How about casting the block for the wide bore spacing then machining it for either of the above bore spacing's?
I think the current block offerings (if you could get one) cover the "stock" 427 pretty well the market void is the outer limit block,an "easy" 500+ inch FE would find a place in the market I'm sure.

[jayb]

In talking to the block manufacturer I think it is the plan to make any of the blocks machinable to the different bore spacings, and just have two castings, one for a raised cam and one for a standard cam location.

[fekbmax]

Sweet... 

[67gt350]

I wondered about the oiling system, I'm sure a priority main/rod layout would be the best and would be my vote. For a long time I have wondered why on the number #2 & #4 cam journal you could groove the journal to help with more consistent oiling in the SOHC configuration. Would it be a possibility? I think it is going to be a tough decision to decide on features with all the configurations and great ideas everyone has for a new block. Costs will certainly go up the more options that are designed into them. If the foundation is there though to do the modifications you want it will be well worth it.

[jayb]

You mean groove the cam bearing bore in the block, not the journal of the cam, right?  It would be great to do that but would require some special tooling to reach in there and cut a counterbore in the #2 and #4 bores.  What I do on the SOHC is machine the stub cam #2 to make the groove wider and deeper.  I also use a plug on #4 and line up the oiling holes, so that oil will come through the cam bearing from the bottom and go up to the head, and is contained in the cam bearing bore by the plug.  Barry R has also suggested going in there with a die grinder and cutting a slot between the two holes in the #4 cam bearing bore by hand, which may be easier.  I've never tried that; with my luck I'd slip the die grinder and grind through to the edge LOL!

[67gt350]

Yes that is what I mean, groove the cam bearing bore. I think that the plug you made for the #4 cam journal is an ingenious solution and I have certainly filed that away for future use!! I just never liked the grooves in the cam bearings always thought there could be a better solution. Do you think running roller bearings in the first two journals for the stub cam would be possible? You would have to groove either the cam journal in the block or cut a groove in the back of the bearing. If the rollers don't need anything but splash oiling would they get enough? My luck runs about the same Jay so I definitely would want to get it set up in a mill somehow!

[CaptCobrajet]

Its very easy to do it.  I have a faceplate that centers the block and chucks in a 24" lathe.  Spin the block slow, poke the tool through the bore with a nice radiused tool.  We groove behind roller cam bearings frequently.

[fekbmax]

On my last .060 over 390, the one the 428 crank broke in after either slinging the weight, breaking the eagle rod, can't say for sure what happened first lol but anyway on that 390 105 block I put roller cam bearings in and we were able to make a cutter and use the align bore machine to deepen the oil grooves around #2 and #4 cam bearings since boring the bearing registers took most of the passage away.

[Cyclone Joe]

Jay,
I'm not sure if you've selected a casting house yet, but I've had good luck with SeaCast being very proactive.  They might be worth a phone call if you havent yet down-selected.

Joe

[jayb]

Joe, I've got a couple of foundries that I use in my area for my intake adapters and timing covers, one in Minneapolis and one a little south in Iowa.  The one in Iowa seems to be pretty good.  Where is Seacast located?

[Cyclone Joe]

Jay,
They have a few locations in Seattle, and now one in Butte Montana.

Joe

[Leny Mason]

Jay I am sure you have thought about Siamese cylinders which would give you a lot of strength and bigger bore size, this sounds like fun to me maybe if I ever get this Cammer project done. Leny Mason