New FE Block, Heads, and Intakes on the horizon...

[westcoastgalaxie]

Well this is really cool stuff for the folk with cash to play. How big do you think that market is? Me I'd rather see cheaper 427 blocks or hell 428/390 blocks. A lot of the junk us regular folk are playing with is getting tired and causing headaches and hard to come by. Would be great to pickup an new block for $1500. either stroke it or new style heads and the average joe would have a solid reliable platform. Plenty of power for the street. I would even prefer iron.

Dont get me wrong I am all for cool trick parts but the aftermarket for fe is getting heavy on the high end race pieces.  Would be nice to see some offerings for us regular folk. Plus it would seem that market would be bigger. 

[cjshaker]

Would be great to pickup an new block for $1500.

As much as I like the idea of a $1500 block, I doubt that will ever come close to being a reality. Just not enough sales like you'd get with a small block Ford or Chevy.

[westcoastgalaxie]

Fair enough, what do you think the price point would be for a standard fe block? 2k? 3k?

[fekbmax]

Heavy on the high end race pieces ??
Hell, can't even get blocks except when it's the 32nd day of the month with a double full moon.

[fryedaddy]

i would like to see some heads and intake that would bolt right up to a good shortblock 390-427-428,fit under the hood and add 150-200 extra hp over stock heads and intake.something that would give us little guys some bang for the buck

[jayb]

Fair enough, what do you think the price point would be for a standard fe block? 2k? 3k?

I don't think it would be that much cheaper to do a 390 or 428 block than it is to do a 427 block.  As a guess, if a 427 cast iron block is $3500, I doubt that a cast iron 428 block would be less than $3200.  The differences in cost would come from the frost plugs (press in vs. screw in) and the cross bolts.  Other than that, I think the costs would be about the same.

Now, if we could do a production run of 2000 blocks, I'll bet the price would be half that much.

[e philpott]

I wonder what a 6R80 will take horsepower-wise?

stock? rated at 800ft lbs.  (Thought that was what 6r80 means.... 6 speed, 800ft lb)
spend a few thousand and you have something that could survive behind your car.  Might be handy if you need a super low gear and double overdrive.  I think it'd be a much nicer street trans or perhaps something for the 1 mile drag racers (maybe even salt flats?)

6R80 ..... 6 speed ... R is rear wheel drive ...... 80 is kilo watt rating .... GM and Ford both use this rating

[jayb]

So, 80 Kilowatts is 106 horsepower.  800 kilowatts is 1060 horsepower.  And kilowatts is power, not torque.  I've also read in the last couple of days that the 800 is in Newton Meters, which is about 590 lb-foot of torque.  That seems to make more sense.  Then I also read that this is the rating at the transmission input shaft, not at the torque converter, and that the torque multiplication factor of the 6R80 is pretty high at 1.8:1, so the torque from the engine that the transmission can handle is 1.8 times less than the torque that the transmission is rated at.  Not sure what to think about that trans, after reading all these contradictory reports...

http://www.f150hub.com/trans/6R-80.html

http://www.allfordmustangs.com/forums/2011-2014-mustang-gt-tech/303689-2012-mustang-gt-6r80-transmission-power-rating.html

[e philpott]

I have never researched it any further than my Transmission manuals saying that  ......... Newton meters seems to be the closest

[Joe-JDC]

I believe the new Cobra Jet cars use a C-4???  If the others were so strong, why go backwards?  Joe-JDC

[Drew Pojedinec]

I have never researched it any further than my Transmission manuals saying that  ......... Newton meters seems to be the closest

Either way, thanks for the education!

[Yellow Truck]

I've been thinking about this because it raises an interesting question - why build an FE to begin with? I know there are serious builders and racers on this forum - I've relied on you for good advice on my mild little project. They are one class of enthusiast. I think once you have gone as far as some of you, including Jay, in pursuit of the maximum the engine architecture can yield, there must be a desire to push past the design limits. I had never heard of anyone changing the bore spacing before I learned Jay had done it. It may not be that unusual in serious racing circles, but it seemed pretty interesting to me.

I am curious why the FE appeals to the racing community, to me the appeal is largely nostalgic. The 427 is iconic, and the SOHC is (to my knowledge) the only engine ever to draw a sanction from NASCAR. I have no interest in today's homogenized NASCAR vehicles. They are not as fast as they were in the sixties, and they bear no resemblance to the car you can go and buy. Hell, most of the actual cars are FWD but they race RWD cars.

For me, I had wanted to build an FE since I was a teenager 40 years ago. I never wanted to build anything else. Thanks to the very good after market parts now available, it was a lot easier for a lay person. Most people like me didn't have the detailed knowledge of FE parts, or access to places where they could be found (you can't hunt parts at swap meets where there are no swap meets).

For me it was a little important to start with a period block, but given that I have aluminum after market heads and intake, a modern cam and crank, etc., originality was not that important. I would have been very happy with an aluminium 427 block as a starting point. $4,000 would have been a little more than I spent on reconditioning my 390, but if it came ready to assemble, it would have been an attractive proposition.

For a nostalgia builder the new block would be a good alternative to finding and re-conning an old block. As for the intake and heads - 700 hp sounds better than the 550 I hope to see, but what other complications will they present? BBM, Survival, and others offer packages for those of us with fewer skills that more or less bolt up.

Once I have survived this project, I might want a big cube 900 hp street motor, I would have to find another vehicle first. Would I have started with an aluminum 427 block? Yes.

[westcoastgalaxie]

 Think about it this way we have new heads to chose from that are stock replacement level incremented all the up to full race level. But for blocks we have full race only, in aluminum or iron. So if you don't want need that you stick with stock. So you look for hen's teeth or you deal with 40 over, maybe resleeve it.

I wasn't thinking of a block based off the current offerings that does seem silly. So I think there would be other differences, most cast iron aftermarket 427 blocks tip the scales at 250 lbs. that's what 50 lbs over stock? That 50 lbs is a turnoff for me when I don't need a block that will hold 1000+ hp. Make a 428 block with thick cly walls and some minor enhancements to have a reliable 600-700 hp range. Most guys on the street don't need more than 600. But stock blocks seem to be on borrowed time in that range.

So less material should = cheaper, but then I suppose there would be development costs. If you are targeting the mainstream then your sales numbers should be higher. How many people do you think we have on these forums? Now think outside the forum. Seems like 2000 should be attainable. Are FE powered vehicles really that small?

But this just me, just thinking out loud. Certainly far from an expert in this field.

[cjshaker]

So less material should = cheaper, but then I suppose there would be development costs. If you are targeting the mainstream then your sales numbers should be higher. How many people do you think we have on these forums? Now think outside the forum. Seems like 2000 should be attainable. Are FE powered vehicles really that small?

I think the issue is not whether or not 2000 blocks could be sold, but rather how long it would take to sell them. Selling at a lower price, it would take a long time to recoup costs from such a major investment. Typically, only big companies can do that sort of thing. Now if you could sell those 2000 blocks in one or maybe 2 years, that would be different. You'd probably recoup your costs within half of that timeframe.

When a company first releases their block or head, such as BBM did, you'll get a rush of sales, partly because a lot of guys have been looking, waiting or are just jumping on the opportunity while it's there. Once that initial rush is over, sales will probably drop pretty drastically and even out at a much lower rate.

I'm not a business man, so that was all guessing, but it seems to be logical.

[fryedaddy]

i might be wrong too,but i think after the rush to get one is over everyone else will see them and i think there will be steady sales from then on.jmo,