390 overheating at idle

[FirstEliminator]

   Hey guys,

   I have a customer that brought me a 63 Galaxy with a 390 for work on the Cruise-O-Matic. He also had some other complaints for me to look into. One of them being the engine overheats at idle. The temp climbs up to about 180-185 in a normally expected amount of time. Then if the car if left to idle, the temp slowly increases until it boils past the radiator cap. It feels like the fan is pulling a sufficient amount of air through the front of the radiator.

  The customer says he had the engine rebuilt. He also mentioned that he hasn't been too pleased with the shop that did most of the work. Big bucks for stuff that doesn't perform well or work correctly. Anyway....
   
 I remember reading a long time ago that if the head gaskets were put on backwards that it would make a mysterious overheating problem. If this is a possibility, is there a tell-tale way to determine such without pulling the heads?


   thanks,
      Mark
  Berkshire Transmissions
North Adams, Massachusetts

[Drew Pojedinec]

Galaxie are a bit of a pain to cool sometimes.
I'd need to hear more about the radiator/fan combo to make a guess there.

Head gasket should stick out the front a hair.
an excerpt from Barry R's book:
http://diyford.com/ford-fe-engine-assembly-ultimate-guide/
It has pictures of how it should look.

btw, buy the damn book:
http://www.amazon.com/Build-Max-Performance-Engines-Performance-How-To/dp/1934709158


My gut feeling?  the coolant/water is boiling out the radiator....  so that known I'd wager the head gasket is on correctly.  See if you can follow my line of thinkin here.
water flows from water pump into block, front to back.  It passes around the cylinders picking up some heat.  It then goes through the gasket hole into the head where it picks up the majority of it's heat.  It travels through the head back to front and up into the intake manifold.  From there it dumps back into the water pump and also into the radiator.
If the gasket were on backwards, I would think the water would not heat up enough in the radiator to pop the cap....  it'd be exceedingly hot in the back of the head however and would most likely crack the head.

good luck
Drew

[GJCAT427]

How old is the radiator? A fresh rebuild will raise hell on an old rad, at the very least flush it and look at how much rust comes out of it. They put 2 cores in from the factory and they were marginal 50 yrs ago.

[NIsaacs]

Also make sure the t-stat is good, or that it is not completely gone. Like CJ said, I would suspect the radiator unless it is new. Start it cold with the cap off, radiator plumb full and make sure there are no compression bubbles.

Nick

[machoneman]

No, flipping the head gaskets in error (tab NOT showing at the lower front edge of each head) will result in an overheat condition mighty fast. 

[Drew Pojedinec]

Not trying to argue Bob, but it would pop the radiator cap?
I've never done it so I don't know.
I'd have thought the heat would build up and blow the head gasket or crack the head.... I didn't figure the really hot water would make it down stream.

[rockhouse66]

Needs more static/initial timing advance?  There is a test kit to determine if there is combustion gas in the water.

[shady]

the fact that it only overheats when idling, as opposed to going down the road, tells me that either it's not getting enough of air flow or water flow. fan blade on backwards? or maybe water pump impeller rusted away? aftermarket pulleys or serpentine? water pump made for a serp. running backwards? I'ld prolly start with the pump.

[machoneman]

Not trying to argue Bob, but it would pop the radiator cap?
I've never done it so I don't know.
I'd have thought the heat would build up and blow the head gasket or crack the head.... I didn't figure the really hot water would make it down stream.

Yes, it will if one runs it for any length of time. Ask me how I know this....LOL! Keep in mind the heater core is the accidental 'bypass' and it helps keep one from blowing a head gasket. 

[FirstEliminator]

   hey guys,
      Thanks for the replies. I do have Barry's book. Didn't think to look in there about the gasket.  I checked and the gasket is on correctly.
 
     The Galaxie is in an incomplete state. With some work I will be able to test drive it. So, I am not sure if it maintains temp or cools down while driving.

     Fan blade is on correctly. It's a 7 blade with a clutch.  When putting my hand in front of the radiator core at idle, it feels as if a sufficient amount of air is getting pulled through.

   As far as pulleys, everything is stock.

    The radiator might be a 3 core as there isn't one deep step on either side. The core fills the width of the tank pretty good. If I have to drain the coolant, I will check the core count.  The radiator has good paint on it. I don't remember if he said the radiator is new or rebuilt or cleaned. I will find out.

    The Galaxie was picked up on 11/13/14 and supposed to be a winter project. Although, we've had the busiest winter ever at the transmission shop. Things have finally tapered off and I'll have a chance to work on some more of the fun stuff.....and maybe some of my own stuff too.

[Drew Pojedinec]

Here in the deep south, the only way I can keep m 63.5 Galaxie below 190 degrees is with a big aluminum radiator and two 1,100 cfm electric fans.

I might have been able to make a mechanical fan work, but was having trouble getting the shroud perfect with the limited room between the engine and radiator in my car.

[FirstEliminator]

Found the problem with the overheating 390.  Shady hit the nail on the head. I thought the fan was on correctly, but it was in fact backwards. The other day we finally had time to work on the Galaxie and I parked my 64 Marauder next to it to compare how fast it warmed up and how hot it would get. Both cars were running side by side. The Galaxie started getting hot. 220 on the front of the head. I pointed the infared pyrometer at the intake side of the radiator tank and it was about 218. The opposite side was about 213. I shut the Galaxie off and it was then I had taken a good look at the fan and noticed the curvature of the blades. I shut off the Marauder and sure enough the fan on the Galaxie was on backwards. We turned the fan around and then remeasured the temps. it was about 196 on the head, 191 on the intake side of the radiator tank and 162 on the opposite tank. Now, things are cooling properly. The Galaxie sat idling for about a half hour before running out of gas. It didn't over heat.

    Thanks for the replies,
         Mark

 

[machoneman]

Hah, the fan on backwards. Amazing.

Good to hear about the results btw.

[Drew Pojedinec]

Just tellem to drive it in reverse.

[cjshaker]

Should pick up a tenth or two in the 1/4 also without the fan trying to push the car backwards..lol

Can't say as I've ever heard of that happening (fan on backwards), but I can see how someone could make the mistake.