SOHC Intake Manifolds

[BH107]

Have you talked to Berg about the carbs? They came up in a conversation elsewhere a few days back and someone said they were no longer available, or a long wait...

Either way, I think the demand is going to be pretty limited especially at that price.

I'll be at the SOHC reunion next weekend and so I'll ask a few guys.

[Autoholic]

I haven't specially asked them if they are available but they didn't tell me they no longer make them when I asked them for help on 58 mm drawings.

I know that the SOHC crowd is small to begin with and finding someone who would want an original looking weber intake could be rather hard. The way an engine looks with inline webers is something beautiful. The process for using any drawings I'd release should be something along these lines: creation of the intake out of wood as a prototype, to be used to check fitment. Wood is ease to work with if you need to add or subtract material. Once the prototype is finished, it would be used to create a mold and serve as the mold for the special sand used in sand casting (it would split in half). It's that way or laser scan the finished prototype and then go to CNC (easier route but more expensive).

If no one is interested, that's perfectly fine. I'm willing to work with someone should they actually want the designs once I'm done with them. If it doesn't go anywhere, well I will have successfully designed an intake manifold that can't be found anymore.

[jayb]

Weber Intake Update...

I recently found an accurate diagram of the footprint for the IDA carbs, giving me the precise measurements in mm! This has enabled me to move forward with this intake design. I've managed to get a rough port path for half of the intake. If I was to complete this design, is there anyone who would actually want the intake? You'd have to use Berg 58 mm IDA's and those aren't cheap. This would be roughly an $8000 intake and carb combo. Jay, are you wanting webers???

I'm not a big fan of the Webers on the SOHC; to me the Hilborn setup is far cooler.  When converted to EFI, I think the Hilborn setup would run better too, given today's fuel and the tunability of EFI.  So I guess I'm not really interested in that setup Joe, sorry - Jay

[Autoholic]

I understand that Jay. I do know there is a efi version of webers. I had forgot about Hilborn's setup, which makes it even less likely that someone would want to go this route. You'd have to really want this specific look and use webers.

[kcoffield]

There are a few other XE intakes, and several differnt original blower manifolds.
The intake on the Suncammer is not OEM.

Do you have any additional information to go a long with this? How do you know the XE-93248 intake was not made by Ford? Do you have examples of the other experimental intakes?

Alright. Seems silly to give an intake an XE number if it wasn't a Ford part. Beautiful intake though and the dual inline 4's aren't exactly cheap anymore. Do you have any additional info on experimental intakes? I'm sure there are more than what is in this thread, or at least more pictures of some of the rare intakes.

All for looks, just one of those little details that looks cool and fools most people.

I’m resurrecting an older thread here. The above quotes are from posts #8 & #17 of this thread and they are in reference to the Sunliner 2011 Riddler car with the IR Inline Carb System. Anyone here know who built the cammer and induction system for that car? I noticed the pictures of this system were also dead so here is a picture for posterity's sake.

Best,
Kelly

[Autoholic]

I know that I ended up finding out who the shop was that built the car. I saved a bunch of pics of the car from their website. The shop would be a good source of info if you really wanted to do that combo again. It required a chain driven distributor.

The owner's name is Bruce Rick and the shop was Steve Cook Creations.

http://www.mustangandfords.com/featured-vehicles/mdmp-1203-1956-ford-sunliner/

https://stevecookcreations.com/

[Leny Mason]

A friend of mine has that set up but not in a car, it is set up as a running display it is beautiful and sounds great. Leny Mason

[WerbyFord]

This classic thread seems the right place for this question since Jay you noted the Cammer SOHC specs at 4v=616hp, 8v=657hp.
Nobody on fordfe.com seems to know.
See link below with specs.
But also, note that in the original SAE 650497 paper, the specs at the back say
Torq 515 at 3800
Power 616 at 7000
But then lists TWO 4v carbs.
The graphs arenc conclusive either, they do show a peak about 620hp for the 8v in Figure 42, but clearly it's not even near peaking.
Peak 8v torque looks a lot more like 530 vs 575 in the Motor Trend link below.
Any idea of the real factory SOHC ratings & how they were obtained? A-Curve conditions maybe (blueprinted engine, steel tube headers etc?)

********************************************************************************************************************
I was searching for a possible 1968 NHRA 427 SOHC entry for SS/A racing.

Came across this cool article from June 2012:

https://www.motortrend.com/how-to/mdmp- ... he-mighty/

"Weighing in at a hefty 680 pounds, the new engine served notice that the competition had something to fear when dynamometer numbers revealed that the single four-barrel version produced 616 hp at 7,000 rpm and 515 lb-ft of torque at 3,800 rpm. And as if it couldn't get any better, the addition of the dual four-barrel carburetors stepped the horsepower up to 657 at 7,500, and torque numbers jumped to a stump-pulling 575 lb-ft at 4,200 rpm. "

Do those specs seem high?
Especially the 60 ftlb Torq gain just by adding dual quads?

Somehow I have down 4v=575hp and 8v=616hp which jives a lot better in the Gonkulator (for a nominal  factory rating with iron manifolds) vs eg Jay's SOHC dyno tests.
Anybody have any other specs & sources on SOHC Torq & HP?

[jayb]

Werby, I think that the Ford paper numbers may have been a little light due to Ford's objective of getting the engine approved for NASCAR.  They probably didn't want to oversell the power production, because Chrysler was already screaming about the engine, worried it would overtake the Hemi.  Earl Wade told me years ago that Fred Lorenzen went nearly 190 MPH at a Daytona test session with a cammer equipped 64 Galaxie in January of 1964.  That would have definitely put the Pentastar boys on edge 

Also, just looking at those torque numbers, it's hard to believe that the SOHC, with those killer intake ports and race cams, only made 515 lb-ft of torque in the 4V version.  A bone stock 428CJ, with headers, will make an easy 480+ lb-ft with the stock cam and heads.  Seems like you would pick up more torque with the SOHC.  But the other thing about those numbers that is odd is that you will typically see a 1500-2000 RPM gap between peak torque and peak HP.  The SAE paper shows a 3200 RPM gap for the 4V, and an even bigger gap for the 8V.  Maybe there was more torque at higher engine speeds, but they "adjusted" the numbers so it didn't show it?

Finally, 575 lb-ft of torque is only 1.34 lb-ft per cubic inch.  These days a good race motor, will make substantially more than that.  I find the Motortrend horsepower numbers totally believable, but to me the torque numbers are suspect - Jay

[frnkeore]

The only modern option, for a high flowing IR system, would be with BLP's 2.80" throttle Dominator type carb, but would need much shorter runners to go under a hood.

[WerbyFord]

Thanks Jay.
Do you know the source paper or article for that 8v Torq=575 Power=657?
Of course it gets repeated everywhere now but wondered how it originated, clearly not the SAE paper.
There were some other early SOHC articles but I dont have any that mention the 657hp.
Wondering how they got it (iron exhaust vs headers, prep, etc)

[jayb]

Werby, I don't know the source of those numbers, but for sure they were with headers.  The January 1965 issue of Hot Rod has an SOHC on the cover, with glowing red headers. 

[cammerfe]

I have a copy of the original SAE offering if it would be of help to anyone. It's carefully put away so I would need to dig it out.

KS

[WerbyFord]

I have a copy of the original SAE offering if it would be of help to anyone. It's carefully put away so I would need to dig it out.

KS

I've got that one, copied it in the basement of the UM Library long ago before they scrapped all that stuff.
But it says Torq=515 Power=616 for the SOHC-8v, which maybe a misprint although it does agree with the graphs in the paper.
Suspicious that those numbers later became the exact ratings for the 4v not the 8v.

SAE-650497 doesnt give 4v specs in the table but from the graph the 4v shows Torq=490 Power=580.
But it doesnt say if those numbers are SAE gross STP or Ford A-Curve or B-Curve or what.

[GerryP]

Werby, I don't know the source of those numbers, but for sure they were with headers.  The January 1965 issue of Hot Rod has an SOHC on the cover, with glowing red headers.

Glowing red iron manifolds.  The photo is epic.