Author Topic: SOHC Intake Manifolds  (Read 41883 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Autoholic

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 422
    • View Profile
SOHC Intake Manifolds
« on: May 07, 2015, 01:44:44 PM »
I realized last night that I am sitting on a bunch of research on the SOHC, including intake manifolds. Some of these have been found on eBay over the past 5+ years and as such, are no longer visible. I can't remember finding anywhere online where someone could find out information specifically about the SOHC intake manifolds. If the intake was a Ford part, I tried to get the part number whenever possible. Some of these intakes though are very, very rare. :) More pictures can be found in the link below.

https://plus.google.com/photos/108907720764484306437/albums/6146185049650914321

Single Carb Intakes

The first one is a single carb, dual plane with p/n C6AE-9424-J, which is identical to C6AE-9425-J as far as I can tell.




Below is C6AE-9425-J




The last single carb intake I know of is C6AE-9425-I. I have only confirmed the existence of this intake on 1 cammer, found in a Starline. I got the p/n from an eBay listing, I believe I spoke to the seller about it.




Dual Carb Intakes

I only know of one factory dual carb intake, C6AE-9425-L. Robert Pond makes a repro of this.


« Last Edit: May 07, 2015, 02:42:13 PM by Autoholic »
~Joe
"Autoholism is an incurable addiction medicated daily with car porn."

Autoholic

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 422
    • View Profile
Re: SOHC Intake Manifolds
« Reply #1 on: May 07, 2015, 01:58:37 PM »
Factory Prototypes / Experiementals and Unknown Origins

I do not have a part number for the first intake but I do remember speaking to the seller about it. I thought it was a Dove intake but the seller confirmed that it was from the 60's and it had no markings on it. ANY additional info on this intake would be appreciated. This could be where Dove got their intake design.





Dual Autolite Inline 4 crossram intake, p/n XE-93248 and found in the Suncammer.




SOHC Webber Intake, I do not know much about this intake and have never seen any other pictures of it other than a promo shot for the Super Cyclone.






I do not know if this was a factory experimental or a Holman Moody part, but here is the only picture I have of a high riser tunnel port. It was Hubert Platt's Mustang and so chances are this was an experimental. http://www.mustangandfords.com/featured-vehicles/mump-1302-1969-ford-mustang-georgia-shaker-is-back/
« Last Edit: May 07, 2015, 08:18:09 PM by Autoholic »
~Joe
"Autoholism is an incurable addiction medicated daily with car porn."

Autoholic

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 422
    • View Profile
Re: SOHC Intake Manifolds
« Reply #2 on: May 07, 2015, 02:10:30 PM »
Aftermarket Intakes

The first aftermarket is of course Dove's single plane tunnel port, which is modular. The second pic has a blower adapter.



The next one is Munro's single plane, dual carb intake. This is my favorite.




The next one I have pictures of is Munro's blower manifold.


« Last Edit: May 07, 2015, 02:17:46 PM by Autoholic »
~Joe
"Autoholism is an incurable addiction medicated daily with car porn."

Autoholic

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 422
    • View Profile
Re: SOHC Intake Manifolds
« Reply #3 on: May 07, 2015, 02:20:28 PM »
Hilborn makes both an EFI and old school fuel injection manifold.


« Last Edit: May 07, 2015, 02:33:37 PM by Autoholic »
~Joe
"Autoholism is an incurable addiction medicated daily with car porn."

cobracammer

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1165
    • View Profile
Re: SOHC Intake Manifolds
« Reply #4 on: May 07, 2015, 02:46:19 PM »
SOHC Webber intake was from Orlando Florida  (the guys name was Wayne Jeffers I believe).  I believe he has since passed away, and that picture you have above looks like one of a whole bunch I saved when it sold on ebay a few years ago for over $10,000.00.  I was talking with a foundry as well as a few AutoCAD people and a 3D scanner to start getting these made in the aftermarket world....  But moving jobs and moving states took up my time.  :0(

When this one sold on ebay, I liked it so much, that I saved every picture they had on the ad so that the AutoCAD people could use my Robert Pond intake and those pictures to come up with a "Wire" drawing that I could send to the mold maker  LOL

Even if there wasn't good performance from this piece (and Im not saying there wasn't because I don't know......) it still looks 10 X cooler to have IDA carbs all lined up like that!
« Last Edit: May 08, 2015, 09:34:34 AM by cobracammer »
Jason
2005 Saleen S281 (427 SOHC 2 X 4 EFI swap), T56 Magnum XL 6 speed, 9" Currie rear with 3.89 Gears

Autoholic

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 422
    • View Profile
Re: SOHC Intake Manifolds
« Reply #5 on: May 07, 2015, 03:16:41 PM »
Yep, I saved the pics too. I have a 3D CAD file that details the SOHC. The accuracy I do not know about, I've never tried to take measurements on it and have them checked by someone with real parts. Building a 3D version of that webber intake wouldn't take too much work, my only problem right now is that I do not have a high end CAD program to model it in. Nor do I have the computer to truly knock out this design, the tech stuff will take a year or two. If the CAD file I have for the SOHC is accurate, I could design pretty much to my heart's content. I have some ideas that I have worked on...

~Joe
"Autoholism is an incurable addiction medicated daily with car porn."

BH107

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 305
    • View Profile
Re: SOHC Intake Manifolds
« Reply #6 on: May 08, 2015, 01:15:41 AM »
SOHC Webber intake was from the Orlando Florida  (the guys name was Wayne Jeffers I believe).  I believe he has since passed away, and that picture you have above look like one of a whole bunch I saved when it sold on ebay a few years ago for over $10,000.00.  I was talking with a foundry as well as a few AutoCAD people and a 3D scanner to start getting these made in the aftermarket world....  But moving jobs and moving states took up my time.  :0(

When this one sold on ebay, I liked it so much, that I saved every picture they had on the ad so that the AutoCAD people could use my Robert Pond intake and those pictures to come up with a "Wire" drawing that I could send to the mold maker  LOL

Even if there wasn't good performance from this piece (and Im not saying there wasn't because I don't know......) it still looks 10 X cooler to have IDA carbs all lined up like that!

Wouldn't have done you much good to "copy" it as it will only fit original 58mm Webers which have a different bolt pattern than the 48mm IDA.


BH107

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 305
    • View Profile
Re: SOHC Intake Manifolds
« Reply #7 on: May 08, 2015, 01:19:39 AM »
There are a few other XE intakes, and several differnt original blower manifolds.

The intake on the Suncammer is not OEM.

Autoholic

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 422
    • View Profile
Re: SOHC Intake Manifolds
« Reply #8 on: May 08, 2015, 03:01:02 AM »
There are a few other XE intakes, and several differnt original blower manifolds.

The intake on the Suncammer is not OEM.

Do you have any additional information to go a long with this? How do you know the XE-93248 intake was not made by Ford? Do you have examples of the other experimental intakes?
~Joe
"Autoholism is an incurable addiction medicated daily with car porn."

Autoholic

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 422
    • View Profile
Re: SOHC Intake Manifolds
« Reply #9 on: May 08, 2015, 03:32:49 AM »
Wouldn't have done you much good to "copy" it as it will only fit original 58mm Webers which have a different bolt pattern than the 48mm IDA.

Actually, with a small modification to the design to fit a 48 mm IDA, the intake will work even better. From my CAD file, the intake ports are 54 mm. I'm not sure if this is accurate but if it is, then you would be going from a 48 mm port to a 54 mm port, giving you the ability to slightly slow down the air fuel mixture. Whenever you slow down a gas, the pressure of the gas will increase. You could design the intake to have a small expansion right before the exit of the intake. This would cause a small increase in pressure on top of the port on the heads. If my 54 mm is correct, you would be going from 48 mm to 54 mm, which is a 21% increase in cross sectional area of that pipe. That's a pretty big difference that will have to be equalized by slowing down the air fuel mixture and increasing its pressure. If designed properly, that could be a decent increase in the efficiency of the engine.

While SketchUp certainly has it's limitations, it can be useful in creating a design still. I know there are plug ins that allow you to save in formats that can be used in Pro/E and SolidWorks. They cost though and without the program to export to, I haven't had a need for them yet. Here is a teaser. I'm currently working on the tunnel pathway for the intake. With Solid Works, it would be easy to do this. Without an awesome program like that, I have to do it all by hand.

~Joe
"Autoholism is an incurable addiction medicated daily with car porn."

rockittsled

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 100
  • 1976 F-250 390 4v C6
    • View Profile
Re: SOHC Intake Manifolds
« Reply #10 on: May 08, 2015, 03:54:03 AM »
There are a few other XE intakes, and several differnt original blower manifolds.

The intake on the Suncammer is not OEM.

Do you have any additional information to go a long with this? How do you know the XE-93248 intake was not made by Ford? Do you have examples of the other experimental intakes?
Several articles on the Sunliner state that it is a custom manifold. I could not find the specific article that I remember which gave the reason that Cook chose to build the intake.  The fact that it won the Ridler meant there was a lot of coverage of the car and a lot to search. 
« Last Edit: May 08, 2015, 03:57:08 AM by rockittsled »

Autoholic

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 422
    • View Profile
Re: SOHC Intake Manifolds
« Reply #11 on: May 08, 2015, 04:00:47 AM »
Alright. Seems silly to give an intake an XE number if it wasn't a Ford part. Beautiful intake though and the dual inline 4's aren't exactly cheap anymore. Do you have any additional info on experimental intakes? I'm sure there are more than what is in this thread, or at least more pictures of some of the rare intakes.
~Joe
"Autoholism is an incurable addiction medicated daily with car porn."

ScotiaFE

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1409
  • Howie
    • View Profile
Re: SOHC Intake Manifolds
« Reply #12 on: May 08, 2015, 05:48:50 AM »
Me thinks you're trying to temp Jay into another intake shoot out. ;D

machoneman

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3846
    • View Profile
Re: SOHC Intake Manifolds
« Reply #13 on: May 08, 2015, 06:55:48 AM »
Cool thread. Had no idea quite so many cammer intakes were made back then, let alone some of the newer iterations. It's a bit amazing considering Ford only made 500-550 SOHC engines as most modern historians claim.
Bob Maag

jayb

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7400
    • View Profile
    • FE Power
Re: SOHC Intake Manifolds
« Reply #14 on: May 08, 2015, 07:49:04 AM »
You'd never want to use 48 IDA Webers on an SOHC.  They are way, way too small to make decent power.  During my intake testing on standard FEs the 48 IDA Webers started giving up around 550 HP, and were way down on power compared to some of the Holley carb combinations at 650HP.  Given that a stock 4V SOHC is 616 HP, the Webers would be a step down.  And the 4V SOHCs were carb limited too, since just the change to a 2X4V setup netted an additional 40 HP. 

The Hilborn manifold, on the other hand, seems to work great; mine is converted to EFI and is very street friendly, although touchy about the butterfly adjustments.  I made 960 HP with that manifold on my big SOHC.  If you are interested in an individual runner setup, the Hilborn is the way to go.
Jay Brown
- 1969 Mach 1, Drag Week 2005 Winner NA/BB, 511" FE (10.60s @ 129); Drag Week 2007 Runner-Up PA/BB, 490" Supercharged FE (9.35 @ 151)
- 1964 Ford Galaxie, Drag Week 2009 Winner Modified NA (9.50s @ 143), 585" SOHC
- 1969 Shelby Clone, Drag Week 2015 Winner Modified NA (Average 8.98 @ 149), 585" SOHC

   

cobracammer

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1165
    • View Profile
Re: SOHC Intake Manifolds
« Reply #15 on: May 08, 2015, 08:12:01 AM »
SOHC Webber intake was from the Orlando Florida  (the guys name was Wayne Jeffers I believe).  I believe he has since passed away, and that picture you have above look like one of a whole bunch I saved when it sold on ebay a few years ago for over $10,000.00.  I was talking with a foundry as well as a few AutoCAD people and a 3D scanner to start getting these made in the aftermarket world....  But moving jobs and moving states took up my time.  :0(

When this one sold on ebay, I liked it so much, that I saved every picture they had on the ad so that the AutoCAD people could use my Robert Pond intake and those pictures to come up with a "Wire" drawing that I could send to the mold maker  LOL

Even if there wasn't good performance from this piece (and Im not saying there wasn't because I don't know......) it still looks 10 X cooler to have IDA carbs all lined up like that!

Wouldn't have done you much good to "copy" it as it will only fit original 58mm Webers which have a different bolt pattern than the 48mm IDA.

I actually found IDA carbs being made now that would fit and are 58mm and higher if you want to order custom!  Here is a picture of someone else using them on a SOHC motor (I believe).  I also called them to find out about measurements (when I was trying to have webber intakes cast) and they said it would fit..... FWIW

http://www.clubcobra.com/forums/all-cobra-talk/85479-berg-60mm-ida-carb.html

Also there are a ton of places that sell IDA style throttle bodies in 58mm and higher.  I am pretty sure Wayne Jeffers used those on his car that you see pictures of all over the place.  Each IDA has a small fuel rail (only 2 injectors) on it... and they line up perfectly.  :0)
« Last Edit: May 08, 2015, 09:36:59 AM by cobracammer »
Jason
2005 Saleen S281 (427 SOHC 2 X 4 EFI swap), T56 Magnum XL 6 speed, 9" Currie rear with 3.89 Gears

jayb

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7400
    • View Profile
    • FE Power
Re: SOHC Intake Manifolds
« Reply #16 on: May 08, 2015, 09:35:49 AM »
Yes, I think you would want to go with at least the 58mm Webers if you went the Weber route.
Jay Brown
- 1969 Mach 1, Drag Week 2005 Winner NA/BB, 511" FE (10.60s @ 129); Drag Week 2007 Runner-Up PA/BB, 490" Supercharged FE (9.35 @ 151)
- 1964 Ford Galaxie, Drag Week 2009 Winner Modified NA (9.50s @ 143), 585" SOHC
- 1969 Shelby Clone, Drag Week 2015 Winner Modified NA (Average 8.98 @ 149), 585" SOHC

   

BH107

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 305
    • View Profile
Re: SOHC Intake Manifolds
« Reply #17 on: May 08, 2015, 11:46:14 AM »
Alright. Seems silly to give an intake an XE number if it wasn't a Ford part. Beautiful intake though and the dual inline 4's aren't exactly cheap anymore. Do you have any additional info on experimental intakes? I'm sure there are more than what is in this thread, or at least more pictures of some of the rare intakes.

All for looks, just one of those little details that looks cool and fools most people.

BH107

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 305
    • View Profile
Re: SOHC Intake Manifolds
« Reply #18 on: May 08, 2015, 12:04:21 PM »
SOHC Webber intake was from the Orlando Florida  (the guys name was Wayne Jeffers I believe).  I believe he has since passed away, and that picture you have above look like one of a whole bunch I saved when it sold on ebay a few years ago for over $10,000.00.  I was talking with a foundry as well as a few AutoCAD people and a 3D scanner to start getting these made in the aftermarket world....  But moving jobs and moving states took up my time.  :0(

When this one sold on ebay, I liked it so much, that I saved every picture they had on the ad so that the AutoCAD people could use my Robert Pond intake and those pictures to come up with a "Wire" drawing that I could send to the mold maker  LOL

Even if there wasn't good performance from this piece (and Im not saying there wasn't because I don't know......) it still looks 10 X cooler to have IDA carbs all lined up like that!

Wouldn't have done you much good to "copy" it as it will only fit original 58mm Webers which have a different bolt pattern than the 48mm IDA.

I actually found IDA carbs being made now that would fit and are 58mm and higher if you want to order custom!  Here is a picture of someone else using them on a SOHC motor (I believe).  I also called them to find out about measurements (when I was trying to have webber intakes cast) and they said it would fit..... FWIW

http://www.clubcobra.com/forums/all-cobra-talk/85479-berg-60mm-ida-carb.html

Also there are a ton of places that sell IDA style throttle bodies in 58mm and higher.  I am pretty sure Wayne Jeffers used those on his car that you see pictures of all over the place.  Each IDA has a small fuel rail (only 2 injectors) on it... and they line up perfectly.  :0)

The bolt pattern on the original 58mm intakes is larger than the 48mm throttle bodies. You would have to modify the intake to make any of the IDA carbs fit, or make an adapter. On top of that like Jay said the 48mm IDA isn't enough carb, and those Bergs or others are extremely expensive.

The other option would be original Hilborn 427-F-8 fuel injection. They are the same pattern as the 58mm Weber, and actually have 62mm throttle bodies. They can be cut in half and modified to run on a stacked manifold like the SOHC version, I've seen it done on the high riser intake.

I have the inline high riser 58mm intake and Hilborn setup on the shelf.

On the other had, the new Hilborn 427-F-8B has the IDA pattern so it can be bolted to the Blue Thunder intakes.

BH107

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 305
    • View Profile
Re: SOHC Intake Manifolds
« Reply #19 on: May 08, 2015, 12:06:26 PM »
The only other XE intake I've seen myself had a raised water neck so that a coolant reservoir would clear the timing cover. It was a 4v intake.

Autoholic

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 422
    • View Profile
Re: SOHC Intake Manifolds
« Reply #20 on: May 08, 2015, 01:01:17 PM »
I think the main desire to go with a Weber type carb over Hilborn's is the look. It just looks cooler. Can anyone give me the exact bore diameter of the intake port on either the heads or the exit of a manifold? That is what will dictate the largest size Weber you can run.
~Joe
"Autoholism is an incurable addiction medicated daily with car porn."

BH107

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 305
    • View Profile
Re: SOHC Intake Manifolds
« Reply #21 on: May 08, 2015, 02:39:00 PM »
I just measured an OEM 4v intake and the port is 54mm at the head.

I measured the Hilborn and it is in fact 62mm, and I would guess the Weber is about the same. Remember that the size on the Webers is the venturi size, not the throttle body size.

I also confirmed that the 58mm Weber bolt pattern is right around 15mm wider than the IDA pattern.

Here is an example of a high riser intake that has been welded up to take the standard IDA sized carbs, these happen to be normal 48IDA carbs. Normally the footprint of the 58mm Weber carb would be the same size as the carb pads for them.


Autoholic

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 422
    • View Profile
Re: SOHC Intake Manifolds
« Reply #22 on: May 08, 2015, 05:41:49 PM »
Thanks for that info, it confirms my CAD specs for the port dia. So I take it then the 58 mm IDA's just have less to seal the carb to the intake? If the bolt pattern stays the same, then that would mean there is less support on the bottom. But they are 15 mm wider between the center of the carbs? The 48 mm IDA has a spacing of 90 mm.

This is the diagram I have found to help with this project. The pic is for an IDF, which is identical to the IDA in footprint as far as I can tell. This diagram is for a 40 mm bore. What I've read is that the footprint is the same for the 48 mm bore.



Since the needed IDA is a 58 mm, that means the air fuel mixture would speed up and decrease in pressure due to a 15% increase in area. You want higher pressure, not lower pressure, in an intake. Creating an expansion chamber right before the port might be a good idea, to still create a high pressure area. A holding tank of sorts for the mixture. This is just an idea though and I really don't know if it would be better than just having a gradually decreasing  area through the whole intake runner. In theory, an expansion chamber will help provide the engine with incoming air and fuel. Which brings me to the idea of using a nozzle shape at the outlet port of the intake rather than easing the shape narrower. This causes the air fuel mixture to have to funnel into the intake ports on the head, like having a reservoir. That is one of the reasons why most 4 bbl carb intakes have a valley instead of individual ports. This allows you to have a higher pressure region inside the intake. Lots of different ways you can design an intake to hold the same carb.

Of course I could be entirely wrong in all this thinking. From what I know, I'd think that a nozzle fed by an expansion chamber would be beneficial to the engine. The expansion chamber would go from 58 mm to say 62 or 64 mm in a cone shape. Shortly after reaching 62 or 64 mm, the nozzle would reduce that to 54 mm, a decrease in 8 or 10 mm.  This would create a high pressure region right before entering the intake ports in the heads.
« Last Edit: May 08, 2015, 06:04:28 PM by Autoholic »
~Joe
"Autoholism is an incurable addiction medicated daily with car porn."

BH107

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 305
    • View Profile
Re: SOHC Intake Manifolds
« Reply #23 on: May 08, 2015, 06:03:28 PM »
No, the IDF is a completely different carburetor and the centerline of the two throat is closer. An IDF will not bolt up to an IDA intake.

The 58mm IDA that Gene Berg makes is based on the 48mm IDA design, just a larger throat. The 58mm Webers that Ford used in the 60s is a different design completely, not a 58mm IDA. I believe the throat spacing is the same, but overall they are larger as showed above. The 15mm wider spacing is between the bolts for each individual bore, not centerline of the throats. The setup below would have been welded up and the studs moved closer together on each runner. And yes you are correct that there is less gasket seal on the 58mm IDA carbs because of the larger throat.

Autoholic

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 422
    • View Profile
Re: SOHC Intake Manifolds
« Reply #24 on: May 08, 2015, 06:06:58 PM »
Thanks for that info, again. Do you happen to know what the distance is between the top two and bottom two bolt holes? Or the distance between the centers of the two intake bores?
~Joe
"Autoholism is an incurable addiction medicated daily with car porn."

BH107

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 305
    • View Profile
Re: SOHC Intake Manifolds
« Reply #25 on: May 08, 2015, 07:53:45 PM »
Thanks for that info, again. Do you happen to know what the distance is between the top two and bottom two bolt holes? Or the distance between the centers of the two intake bores?

My intake is at my shop, so I won't be able to measure until Monday. I'll see if I can dig up a 48mm IDA this weekend in the Garage.

TimeWarpF100

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 683
    • View Profile
Re: SOHC Intake Manifolds
« Reply #26 on: May 08, 2015, 10:43:33 PM »
How about a 58 IDA manifold that was lettered COMET supposed to be 1 of only 2 made! I will have to see if I can dig up some pics. XE part number was supposed to be for one of the flip top funny cars. I forget which one or who it was built for to test.

When I had the SOHC , the manifold was on it but it had been converted to EFI

TimeWarpF100

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 683
    • View Profile
Re: SOHC Intake Manifolds
« Reply #27 on: May 08, 2015, 10:46:57 PM »
Found one of car but trying to find the pic's of manifold.


TimeWarpF100

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 683
    • View Profile
Re: SOHC Intake Manifolds
« Reply #28 on: May 08, 2015, 10:51:13 PM »
Found another of car with the 427 comet & cobra. No manifold pics yet . .


Barry_R

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1906
    • View Profile
    • Survival Motorsports
Re: SOHC Intake Manifolds
« Reply #29 on: May 09, 2015, 04:27:10 AM »

BH107

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 305
    • View Profile
Re: SOHC Intake Manifolds
« Reply #30 on: May 09, 2015, 01:05:35 PM »
Barry, were those adapter risers welded into place?

Autoholic

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 422
    • View Profile
Re: SOHC Intake Manifolds
« Reply #31 on: May 11, 2015, 12:39:33 AM »
Found one of car but trying to find the pic's of manifold.



Did you find anymore pics of this intake?
~Joe
"Autoholism is an incurable addiction medicated daily with car porn."

Autoholic

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 422
    • View Profile
Re: SOHC Intake Manifolds
« Reply #32 on: May 11, 2015, 10:32:02 PM »
Anyone ever seen this intake?

~Joe
"Autoholism is an incurable addiction medicated daily with car porn."

jayb

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7400
    • View Profile
    • FE Power
Re: SOHC Intake Manifolds
« Reply #33 on: May 12, 2015, 07:31:26 AM »
That kind of looks like one of those box-style NASCAR intakes, with a custom top to mount the carbs.  Usually on those manifolds the tops unbolt, and you can replace the top with a machined aluminum plate, allowing you to put any carb combination up there.  Having said that, I've never seen a NASCAR style box intake for an SOHC; it may be that the entire intake is fabricated, not just the top.  I like the way the LeMans float bowls were used on the 2 barrel carbs on that setup; along with the magneto it makes the engine look very period correct.
Jay Brown
- 1969 Mach 1, Drag Week 2005 Winner NA/BB, 511" FE (10.60s @ 129); Drag Week 2007 Runner-Up PA/BB, 490" Supercharged FE (9.35 @ 151)
- 1964 Ford Galaxie, Drag Week 2009 Winner Modified NA (9.50s @ 143), 585" SOHC
- 1969 Shelby Clone, Drag Week 2015 Winner Modified NA (Average 8.98 @ 149), 585" SOHC

   

BruceS

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 738
    • View Profile
Re: SOHC Intake Manifolds
« Reply #34 on: May 12, 2015, 08:12:30 AM »
Yep, that Vertex mag sticks way up there!  Also notice the 2 master cylinders; maybe the single reservoir one is for the clutch?  Very sanitary setup overall. 

Bruce
66 Fairlane 500, 347-4V SB stroker, C4
63 Galaxie 500 fastback, 482 SO 4V, Cruise-O-Matic

TimeWarpF100

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 683
    • View Profile
Re: SOHC Intake Manifolds
« Reply #35 on: May 12, 2015, 01:45:19 PM »
Found one of car but trying to find the pic's of manifold.



Did you find anymore pics of this intake?

Have not found the one only of intake. Did not have digital camera back then . .

Some may recognize it here On book cover.

The close up is when I had it . .



TimeWarpF100

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 683
    • View Profile
Re: SOHC Intake Manifolds
« Reply #36 on: May 12, 2015, 01:48:38 PM »
Another angle.


BH107

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 305
    • View Profile
Re: SOHC Intake Manifolds
« Reply #37 on: May 12, 2015, 03:09:50 PM »
There are adapters under those throttle bodies as well, so it was probably an early version for inline 58mm Webers or the bolt on Hilborn setup.

Another note is that on the inline 58mm intakes the carbs are not mirrored like on the IDA intakes, and all of the carbs face the same direction.

Autoholic

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 422
    • View Profile
Re: SOHC Intake Manifolds
« Reply #38 on: May 12, 2015, 04:54:31 PM »
Thanks for that info, again. Do you happen to know what the distance is between the top two and bottom two bolt holes? Or the distance between the centers of the two intake bores?

My intake is at my shop, so I won't be able to measure until Monday. I'll see if I can dig up a 48mm IDA this weekend in the Garage.

Any additional info? I appreciate any info on the specs of the 48 or 58 IDA's. While the intake will be conceptual, I will release the design once I'm done.
~Joe
"Autoholism is an incurable addiction medicated daily with car porn."

Autoholic

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 422
    • View Profile
Re: SOHC Intake Manifolds
« Reply #39 on: May 15, 2015, 01:38:03 AM »
Bump :)
~Joe
"Autoholism is an incurable addiction medicated daily with car porn."

BH107

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 305
    • View Profile
Re: SOHC Intake Manifolds
« Reply #40 on: May 15, 2015, 01:58:16 AM »
Bump :)

Sorry, been a crazy week and I haven't pulled the parts down... I'll try to get to it this weekend.

machoneman

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3846
    • View Profile
Re: SOHC Intake Manifolds
« Reply #41 on: May 15, 2015, 05:52:52 AM »
an O/T (for this post) question for Jay:

Have you ever seen or have a pair of the OEM Ford cast iron SOHC exhaust manifolds?

A thread on the FE Forum reminded me of my January 2015 visit to Garlit's museum where I took a pic of the only set of said manifolds I've ever seen in person or even in pics.  I didn't know Ford made them up as the fully assembled 'crate' engines of yore I  don't think came with any headers. 
Bob Maag

jayb

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7400
    • View Profile
    • FE Power
Re: SOHC Intake Manifolds
« Reply #42 on: May 15, 2015, 10:27:25 PM »
Never seen them in person, Bob.  I read somewhere that they were based off the 65 Galaxie cast iron 427 headers, with a crude modification to the cores, and only 8-10 sets were ever produced.  Just another rumor, I suppose, but you certainly don't see them around anywhere...
Jay Brown
- 1969 Mach 1, Drag Week 2005 Winner NA/BB, 511" FE (10.60s @ 129); Drag Week 2007 Runner-Up PA/BB, 490" Supercharged FE (9.35 @ 151)
- 1964 Ford Galaxie, Drag Week 2009 Winner Modified NA (9.50s @ 143), 585" SOHC
- 1969 Shelby Clone, Drag Week 2015 Winner Modified NA (Average 8.98 @ 149), 585" SOHC

   

WConley

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1157
  • No longer walking funny!
    • View Profile
Re: SOHC Intake Manifolds
« Reply #43 on: May 16, 2015, 02:15:21 AM »
Yes I have a drawing stashed somewhere of those '65 SOHC headers.  You can see where the medium riser flange was erased and the new SOHC flange added and blended to the existing runners. 

I did see a SOHC engine in Ford's booth at PRI several years ago with a set of those manifolds on it.  Very cool!
A careful study of failure will yield the ingredients for success.

Autoholic

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 422
    • View Profile
Re: SOHC Intake Manifolds
« Reply #44 on: May 17, 2015, 02:28:52 AM »
Bump :)

Sorry, been a crazy week and I haven't pulled the parts down... I'll try to get to it this weekend.

Thanks, I appreciate it. I've started the process of figuring out the path the runners will have to take but without knowing if my 58 IDA footprint is correct, there is little reason to knock out the actual runner design. I've got about 60% of the curves down for the runner path.

I've decided that going with an expanding cone with a nozzle to reduce the bore diameter would be a good idea. It slows down the incoming air, thus creating a small increase in pressure right before the nozzle. This design should create a steady supply of air even at higher RPMs over that of a traditional runner design where you don't have an expansion chamber of sorts.
~Joe
"Autoholism is an incurable addiction medicated daily with car porn."

Barry_R

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1906
    • View Profile
    • Survival Motorsports
Re: SOHC Intake Manifolds
« Reply #45 on: May 17, 2015, 04:30:51 AM »
Barry, were those adapter risers welded into place?

No I don't believe so.
They were customer supplied - I think they bolted on with socket head fasteners.  The whole engine was "that way" with a bunch of really rare factory parts that we re-used at his request including aluminum heads with OEM valves and cams.

Nightmist66

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1209
    • View Profile
Re: SOHC Intake Manifolds
« Reply #46 on: July 29, 2015, 11:55:41 PM »
A few more pictures I found searching tonight. Maybe someone here knows something about the first setup. ::)







Jared



66 Fairlane GT 390 - .035" Over 390, Wide Ratio Top Loader, 9" w/spool, 4.86

Autoholic

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 422
    • View Profile
Re: SOHC Intake Manifolds
« Reply #47 on: July 30, 2015, 12:10:55 AM »
That high riser has to be pretty darn rare. I wonder how many were made? Something tells me it was one of those speed parts made during a secret evening between some engineers and foundry guys.
~Joe
"Autoholism is an incurable addiction medicated daily with car porn."

Nightmist66

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1209
    • View Profile
Re: SOHC Intake Manifolds
« Reply #48 on: July 30, 2015, 12:30:44 AM »
Here's another custom tunnel ram from Dyno Don's Maverick.

Jared



66 Fairlane GT 390 - .035" Over 390, Wide Ratio Top Loader, 9" w/spool, 4.86

Barry_R

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1906
    • View Profile
    • Survival Motorsports
Re: SOHC Intake Manifolds
« Reply #49 on: July 30, 2015, 03:30:25 AM »
Barry, were those adapter risers welded into place?

No I don't believe so.
They were customer supplied - I think they bolted on with socket head fasteners.  The whole engine was "that way" with a bunch of really rare factory parts that we re-used at his request including aluminum heads with OEM valves and cams.

My customer supplied a lot of images for the Weber adapters he made.  Just need the time to load them for display.  Pretty slick deal and left the original manifold unscathed.

machoneman

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3846
    • View Profile
Re: SOHC Intake Manifolds
« Reply #50 on: July 30, 2015, 06:04:38 AM »
FYI, I think all the (gasoline) SOHC racers of the era made or used essentially home-made intakes. Some used the upper plenum from Edelbrock's dual 4-bbl intake while the bottom was almost always tubular aluminum welded to a simple plate covering the intake ports. Lots of experimentation back then in the early Pro Stock era.

We had seen Nicholson's Maverick and to a lesser extent Schartman's car at the old U.S. 30 strip in NW Indiana and Union Grove, WI numerous times. Never recall seeing a cast lower plenum; always a tubular lower as shown in the pictures. It seems too that the upper plenum size changed frequently and in some cases the upper was also a fabricated piece, no doubt due to the limitations of the cast aluminum plenum. There is a good shot of the cast upper/tubular bottom here:   

https://img.mecum.com/auctions/FL0112/FL0112-121252/images/FL0112-121252_5.jpg
« Last Edit: July 30, 2015, 06:13:42 AM by machoneman »
Bob Maag

57 lima bean

  • Guest
Re: SOHC Intake Manifolds
« Reply #51 on: July 30, 2015, 07:40:48 AM »
"A few more pictures I found searching tonight. Maybe someone here knows something about the first setup".

This appears to be Jay's prelude to the SP2P Cammer manifold. :)

e philpott

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 920
    • View Profile
Re: SOHC Intake Manifolds
« Reply #52 on: July 30, 2015, 08:49:13 AM »
ahhhhh , that "belt drive" just seems like it's the answer to me , no leaking covers , quick to disassemble and reassemble , looks like the way to go if you run a cammer hard to me

machoneman

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3846
    • View Profile
Re: SOHC Intake Manifolds
« Reply #53 on: July 30, 2015, 09:09:07 AM »
Think that was Washington state's Jim Greene, a former fuel drag racer, who did the Gilmer drive.
Bob Maag

Autoholic

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 422
    • View Profile
Re: SOHC Intake Manifolds
« Reply #54 on: July 30, 2015, 09:34:19 AM »
Belts are the weakest of the timing options though and require preventative maintenance. They don't always handle high rpm well and they do flex and stretch the most out of all the options. If you were to go the gilmer drive route, I'd put a dynamic tensioner in the system. There is no way a static tensioner can take up all the slack that will happen as you increase rpms. It's amazing just how much a belt can stretch.

I favor the gear drive route, rock solid timing and the most reliable option. Sealing the engine properly can be done and while I don't personally have a FE right now, isn't the main oil leakage problem the rear main cap?
« Last Edit: July 30, 2015, 09:41:22 AM by Autoholic »
~Joe
"Autoholism is an incurable addiction medicated daily with car porn."

jayb

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7400
    • View Profile
    • FE Power
Re: SOHC Intake Manifolds
« Reply #55 on: July 30, 2015, 09:55:12 AM »
"A few more pictures I found searching tonight. Maybe someone here knows something about the first setup".

This appears to be Jay's prelude to the SP2P Cammer manifold. :)

Steve, that manifold is actually Rowdy's; he brought it over for me to test.  Unfortunately, that year I ran out of time to do dyno testing on the engine, so I ended up giving it back to him.  It is a fabricated sheet metal type intake, straight round runners with no taper, but otherwise pretty conventional.
Jay Brown
- 1969 Mach 1, Drag Week 2005 Winner NA/BB, 511" FE (10.60s @ 129); Drag Week 2007 Runner-Up PA/BB, 490" Supercharged FE (9.35 @ 151)
- 1964 Ford Galaxie, Drag Week 2009 Winner Modified NA (9.50s @ 143), 585" SOHC
- 1969 Shelby Clone, Drag Week 2015 Winner Modified NA (Average 8.98 @ 149), 585" SOHC

   

jayb

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7400
    • View Profile
    • FE Power
Re: SOHC Intake Manifolds
« Reply #56 on: July 30, 2015, 09:58:10 AM »
ahhhhh , that "belt drive" just seems like it's the answer to me , no leaking covers , quick to disassemble and reassemble , looks like the way to go if you run a cammer hard to me

Actually, I think that setup may be prone to leaks.  You have to modify the factory SOHC valve covers to make it work, and somehow get the camshafts extended through the cover and seal them as they comes through.  That's a lot of fabrication around two major seal areas.  It's a cool setup, though, and I wish I knew how well it worked...
Jay Brown
- 1969 Mach 1, Drag Week 2005 Winner NA/BB, 511" FE (10.60s @ 129); Drag Week 2007 Runner-Up PA/BB, 490" Supercharged FE (9.35 @ 151)
- 1964 Ford Galaxie, Drag Week 2009 Winner Modified NA (9.50s @ 143), 585" SOHC
- 1969 Shelby Clone, Drag Week 2015 Winner Modified NA (Average 8.98 @ 149), 585" SOHC

   

e philpott

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 920
    • View Profile
Re: SOHC Intake Manifolds
« Reply #57 on: July 30, 2015, 11:44:36 AM »
if someone would have dedicated a design and had parts to convert over easily , it would cut tear down time by 4 hours , no harmonics from chain or gears ..... it's fugly for sure and not pretty for street , but if you was racing one hard core it would be the way to go just from simplicity and ease of maintenance

TomP

  • Guest
Re: SOHC Intake Manifolds
« Reply #58 on: July 30, 2015, 04:06:28 PM »
I thought that black intake on Dyno's Maverick was supposed to be a prototype Edelbrock made?

Autoholic

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 422
    • View Profile
Re: SOHC Intake Manifolds
« Reply #59 on: August 07, 2015, 11:36:39 PM »
Weber Intake Update...

I recently found an accurate diagram of the footprint for the IDA carbs, giving me the precise measurements in mm! This has enabled me to move forward with this intake design. I've managed to get a rough port path for half of the intake. If I was to complete this design, is there anyone who would actually want the intake? You'd have to use Berg 58 mm IDA's and those aren't cheap. This would be roughly an $8000 intake and carb combo. Jay, are you wanting webers???

~Joe
"Autoholism is an incurable addiction medicated daily with car porn."

BH107

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 305
    • View Profile
Re: SOHC Intake Manifolds
« Reply #60 on: August 07, 2015, 11:46:08 PM »
Have you talked to Berg about the carbs? They came up in a conversation elsewhere a few days back and someone said they were no longer available, or a long wait...

Either way, I think the demand is going to be pretty limited especially at that price.

I'll be at the SOHC reunion next weekend and so I'll ask a few guys.

Autoholic

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 422
    • View Profile
Re: SOHC Intake Manifolds
« Reply #61 on: August 08, 2015, 12:01:08 AM »
I haven't specially asked them if they are available but they didn't tell me they no longer make them when I asked them for help on 58 mm drawings.

I know that the SOHC crowd is small to begin with and finding someone who would want an original looking weber intake could be rather hard. The way an engine looks with inline webers is something beautiful. The process for using any drawings I'd release should be something along these lines: creation of the intake out of wood as a prototype, to be used to check fitment. Wood is ease to work with if you need to add or subtract material. Once the prototype is finished, it would be used to create a mold and serve as the mold for the special sand used in sand casting (it would split in half). It's that way or laser scan the finished prototype and then go to CNC (easier route but more expensive).

If no one is interested, that's perfectly fine. I'm willing to work with someone should they actually want the designs once I'm done with them. If it doesn't go anywhere, well I will have successfully designed an intake manifold that can't be found anymore. :)
~Joe
"Autoholism is an incurable addiction medicated daily with car porn."

jayb

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7400
    • View Profile
    • FE Power
Re: SOHC Intake Manifolds
« Reply #62 on: August 08, 2015, 08:14:51 AM »
Weber Intake Update...

I recently found an accurate diagram of the footprint for the IDA carbs, giving me the precise measurements in mm! This has enabled me to move forward with this intake design. I've managed to get a rough port path for half of the intake. If I was to complete this design, is there anyone who would actually want the intake? You'd have to use Berg 58 mm IDA's and those aren't cheap. This would be roughly an $8000 intake and carb combo. Jay, are you wanting webers???


I'm not a big fan of the Webers on the SOHC; to me the Hilborn setup is far cooler.  When converted to EFI, I think the Hilborn setup would run better too, given today's fuel and the tunability of EFI.  So I guess I'm not really interested in that setup Joe, sorry - Jay
Jay Brown
- 1969 Mach 1, Drag Week 2005 Winner NA/BB, 511" FE (10.60s @ 129); Drag Week 2007 Runner-Up PA/BB, 490" Supercharged FE (9.35 @ 151)
- 1964 Ford Galaxie, Drag Week 2009 Winner Modified NA (9.50s @ 143), 585" SOHC
- 1969 Shelby Clone, Drag Week 2015 Winner Modified NA (Average 8.98 @ 149), 585" SOHC

   

Autoholic

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 422
    • View Profile
Re: SOHC Intake Manifolds
« Reply #63 on: August 08, 2015, 10:44:06 AM »
I understand that Jay. I do know there is a efi version of webers. I had forgot about Hilborn's setup, which makes it even less likely that someone would want to go this route. You'd have to really want this specific look and use webers.
~Joe
"Autoholism is an incurable addiction medicated daily with car porn."

kcoffield

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 37
    • View Profile
    • inlinecarb.com
Re: SOHC Intake Manifolds
« Reply #64 on: November 26, 2017, 10:52:09 PM »
There are a few other XE intakes, and several differnt original blower manifolds.
The intake on the Suncammer is not OEM.
Do you have any additional information to go a long with this? How do you know the XE-93248 intake was not made by Ford? Do you have examples of the other experimental intakes?
Alright. Seems silly to give an intake an XE number if it wasn't a Ford part. Beautiful intake though and the dual inline 4's aren't exactly cheap anymore. Do you have any additional info on experimental intakes? I'm sure there are more than what is in this thread, or at least more pictures of some of the rare intakes.
All for looks, just one of those little details that looks cool and fools most people.

I’m resurrecting an older thread here. The above quotes are from posts #8 & #17 of this thread and they are in reference to the Sunliner 2011 Riddler car with the IR Inline Carb System. Anyone here know who built the cammer and induction system for that car? I noticed the pictures of this system were also dead so here is a picture for posterity's sake.

Best,
Kelly
« Last Edit: November 26, 2017, 10:54:31 PM by kcoffield »

Autoholic

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 422
    • View Profile
Re: SOHC Intake Manifolds
« Reply #65 on: November 27, 2017, 02:25:30 AM »
I know that I ended up finding out who the shop was that built the car. I saved a bunch of pics of the car from their website. The shop would be a good source of info if you really wanted to do that combo again. It required a chain driven distributor.

The owner's name is Bruce Rick and the shop was Steve Cook Creations.

http://www.mustangandfords.com/featured-vehicles/mdmp-1203-1956-ford-sunliner/

https://stevecookcreations.com/
~Joe
"Autoholism is an incurable addiction medicated daily with car porn."

Leny Mason

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 368
    • View Profile
Re: SOHC Intake Manifolds
« Reply #66 on: December 10, 2017, 08:45:10 AM »
A friend of mine has that set up but not in a car, it is set up as a running display it is beautiful and sounds great. Leny Mason

WerbyFord

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 335
    • View Profile
Re: SOHC Intake Manifolds
« Reply #67 on: June 26, 2023, 03:09:09 PM »
This classic thread seems the right place for this question since Jay you noted the Cammer SOHC specs at 4v=616hp, 8v=657hp.
Nobody on fordfe.com seems to know.
See link below with specs.
But also, note that in the original SAE 650497 paper, the specs at the back say
Torq 515 at 3800
Power 616 at 7000
But then lists TWO 4v carbs.
The graphs arenc conclusive either, they do show a peak about 620hp for the 8v in Figure 42, but clearly it's not even near peaking.
Peak 8v torque looks a lot more like 530 vs 575 in the Motor Trend link below.
Any idea of the real factory SOHC ratings & how they were obtained? A-Curve conditions maybe (blueprinted engine, steel tube headers etc?)

********************************************************************************************************************
I was searching for a possible 1968 NHRA 427 SOHC entry for SS/A racing.

Came across this cool article from June 2012:

https://www.motortrend.com/how-to/mdmp- ... he-mighty/

"Weighing in at a hefty 680 pounds, the new engine served notice that the competition had something to fear when dynamometer numbers revealed that the single four-barrel version produced 616 hp at 7,000 rpm and 515 lb-ft of torque at 3,800 rpm. And as if it couldn't get any better, the addition of the dual four-barrel carburetors stepped the horsepower up to 657 at 7,500, and torque numbers jumped to a stump-pulling 575 lb-ft at 4,200 rpm. "

Do those specs seem high?
Especially the 60 ftlb Torq gain just by adding dual quads?

Somehow I have down 4v=575hp and 8v=616hp which jives a lot better in the Gonkulator (for a nominal  factory rating with iron manifolds) vs eg Jay's SOHC dyno tests.
Anybody have any other specs & sources on SOHC Torq & HP?

jayb

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7400
    • View Profile
    • FE Power
Re: SOHC Intake Manifolds
« Reply #68 on: June 26, 2023, 04:28:15 PM »
Werby, I think that the Ford paper numbers may have been a little light due to Ford's objective of getting the engine approved for NASCAR.  They probably didn't want to oversell the power production, because Chrysler was already screaming about the engine, worried it would overtake the Hemi.  Earl Wade told me years ago that Fred Lorenzen went nearly 190 MPH at a Daytona test session with a cammer equipped 64 Galaxie in January of 1964.  That would have definitely put the Pentastar boys on edge  ;D

Also, just looking at those torque numbers, it's hard to believe that the SOHC, with those killer intake ports and race cams, only made 515 lb-ft of torque in the 4V version.  A bone stock 428CJ, with headers, will make an easy 480+ lb-ft with the stock cam and heads.  Seems like you would pick up more torque with the SOHC.  But the other thing about those numbers that is odd is that you will typically see a 1500-2000 RPM gap between peak torque and peak HP.  The SAE paper shows a 3200 RPM gap for the 4V, and an even bigger gap for the 8V.  Maybe there was more torque at higher engine speeds, but they "adjusted" the numbers so it didn't show it?

Finally, 575 lb-ft of torque is only 1.34 lb-ft per cubic inch.  These days a good race motor, will make substantially more than that.  I find the Motortrend horsepower numbers totally believable, but to me the torque numbers are suspect - Jay
Jay Brown
- 1969 Mach 1, Drag Week 2005 Winner NA/BB, 511" FE (10.60s @ 129); Drag Week 2007 Runner-Up PA/BB, 490" Supercharged FE (9.35 @ 151)
- 1964 Ford Galaxie, Drag Week 2009 Winner Modified NA (9.50s @ 143), 585" SOHC
- 1969 Shelby Clone, Drag Week 2015 Winner Modified NA (Average 8.98 @ 149), 585" SOHC

   

frnkeore

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1128
    • View Profile
Re: SOHC Intake Manifolds
« Reply #69 on: June 27, 2023, 02:25:28 AM »
The only modern option, for a high flowing IR system, would be with BLP's 2.80" throttle Dominator type carb, but would need much shorter runners to go under a hood.
Frank

WerbyFord

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 335
    • View Profile
Re: SOHC Intake Manifolds
« Reply #70 on: June 28, 2023, 11:03:09 AM »
Thanks Jay.
Do you know the source paper or article for that 8v Torq=575 Power=657?
Of course it gets repeated everywhere now but wondered how it originated, clearly not the SAE paper.
There were some other early SOHC articles but I dont have any that mention the 657hp.
Wondering how they got it (iron exhaust vs headers, prep, etc)

jayb

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7400
    • View Profile
    • FE Power
Re: SOHC Intake Manifolds
« Reply #71 on: June 28, 2023, 02:12:58 PM »
Werby, I don't know the source of those numbers, but for sure they were with headers.  The January 1965 issue of Hot Rod has an SOHC on the cover, with glowing red headers. 
Jay Brown
- 1969 Mach 1, Drag Week 2005 Winner NA/BB, 511" FE (10.60s @ 129); Drag Week 2007 Runner-Up PA/BB, 490" Supercharged FE (9.35 @ 151)
- 1964 Ford Galaxie, Drag Week 2009 Winner Modified NA (9.50s @ 143), 585" SOHC
- 1969 Shelby Clone, Drag Week 2015 Winner Modified NA (Average 8.98 @ 149), 585" SOHC

   

cammerfe

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1654
    • View Profile
Re: SOHC Intake Manifolds
« Reply #72 on: June 28, 2023, 09:31:58 PM »
I have a copy of the original SAE offering if it would be of help to anyone. It's carefully put away so I would need to dig it out.

KS

WerbyFord

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 335
    • View Profile
Re: SOHC Intake Manifolds
« Reply #73 on: June 28, 2023, 10:13:40 PM »
I have a copy of the original SAE offering if it would be of help to anyone. It's carefully put away so I would need to dig it out.

KS

I've got that one, copied it in the basement of the UM Library long ago before they scrapped all that stuff.
But it says Torq=515 Power=616 for the SOHC-8v, which maybe a misprint although it does agree with the graphs in the paper.
Suspicious that those numbers later became the exact ratings for the 4v not the 8v.

SAE-650497 doesnt give 4v specs in the table but from the graph the 4v shows Torq=490 Power=580.
But it doesnt say if those numbers are SAE gross STP or Ford A-Curve or B-Curve or what.

GerryP

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 561
    • View Profile
Re: SOHC Intake Manifolds
« Reply #74 on: June 30, 2023, 06:46:43 AM »
Werby, I don't know the source of those numbers, but for sure they were with headers.  The January 1965 issue of Hot Rod has an SOHC on the cover, with glowing red headers.

Glowing red iron manifolds.  The photo is epic.
 

jayb

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7400
    • View Profile
    • FE Power
Re: SOHC Intake Manifolds
« Reply #75 on: June 30, 2023, 07:20:44 AM »
Hmmm, took another look at that picture and it does look like the headers on that engine could have been modified 63-64 427 cast iron headers.  The flange is definitely steel and has been welded to, but Ford may have hacked off the FE wedge flange from a set of the cast iron headers, cut a different angle on the tubes, and welded on the steel flange.  Never noticed that before...
« Last Edit: June 30, 2023, 07:32:43 AM by jayb »
Jay Brown
- 1969 Mach 1, Drag Week 2005 Winner NA/BB, 511" FE (10.60s @ 129); Drag Week 2007 Runner-Up PA/BB, 490" Supercharged FE (9.35 @ 151)
- 1964 Ford Galaxie, Drag Week 2009 Winner Modified NA (9.50s @ 143), 585" SOHC
- 1969 Shelby Clone, Drag Week 2015 Winner Modified NA (Average 8.98 @ 149), 585" SOHC

   

Autoholic

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 422
    • View Profile
Re: SOHC Intake Manifolds
« Reply #76 on: July 11, 2023, 10:58:27 PM »
Here is a PDF of that article from HR. You should be able to download a copy in the upper right.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1XnaSK1KeiNPgaosDDv1xhQSBBdGG4sGP/view
« Last Edit: July 11, 2023, 11:01:02 PM by Autoholic »
~Joe
"Autoholism is an incurable addiction medicated daily with car porn."

WerbyFord

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 335
    • View Profile
Re: SOHC Intake Manifolds
« Reply #77 on: July 11, 2023, 11:14:32 PM »
Here is a PDF of that article from HR. You should be able to download a copy in the upper right.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1XnaSK1KeiNPgaosDDv1xhQSBBdGG4sGP/view

Awesome! I didnt have thi article.
Looks like the 8v didnt exist yet, and the 4v just says "over 600hp" which jives with the later 616hp rating.
Doesnt say if that was in A-Curve condition though (steel headers and blueprint).

Recall from Jay's testing, on a good old 427 circa 400-450hp, the long iron is about as good as steel headers.
But at 600+ hp that changes, so the configuration still matters for that 616hp and 657hp rating.