Carb Cheater

[SMA390]

I was cruising the internet and frequently watch Thunderhead289 on youtube. He has patented a pretty cool product. It's called the Carb Cheater, It's a very interesting video of this product and installation. Take a look


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NNLud6_x3UM

[TomP]

At the SEMA show about 6 or 7 years ago there was two different companies previewing under-carb auxiliary EFI setups. I think Holley was one. Looked like a 1/2" thick carb spacer with two injectors on it . The carb was jetted lean and this thing richened it as needed.  The next year there was no sign of the stuff as if it didn't exist. I will have to find my pictures or the brochures.

[Drew Pojedinec]

Tom, that is not how Luke’s setup works at all.

His system is pretty trick.

[cammerfe]

From whar I could see, you jet the carb rich and the gizmo adds air as necessary to give an ideal mixture for what's actually happening. I liked the way it smoothed out the idle.

KS

[hbstang]

it seems to use vacuum and timming from the coil to corect afr.i think for mostley mild apllications it would help a lot for driveability.

[cjshaker]

Tom, that is not how Luke’s setup works at all.

His system is pretty trick.

How does it work then? The webpage describes nothing and explains nothing, and neither does his video. I'm not trying to bash him, just get at how it works. How can someone expect people to shell out that kind of money when there is no explanation of how it works or what it even does? I get not wanting to lose out to big companies for designs, but that is what patents are for.

[1964Fastback]

I haven't looked at his videos for a bit, but some of his original videos were of him running his V8 Maverick on a lawn mower carb.  Showed him driving around normally, stopping, starting, etc. and cruising up to 70 mph, then getting out of the car and popping the hood to prove that was what was on there.  But what he discovered was the tiny carb setup actually ran rich (the opposite of what everyone claimed it would).  So he made the "cheater" which was a circuit board and air valve coupled with I believe an AFR probe and his custom software, to pull in extra air (through a filter) as needed below the carb to lean out the mixture to what it needed to be.

That was my understanding of his videos but like I said, I haven't checked in for awhile and just watched a few casually.  But yeah, he seems like a smart guy.

Pat

[machoneman]

Who here remembers the gas crisis of the 70's? Gas jumped to $1.00 per gallon (wish we had that today!) and many folks freaked. Soon, lots of what I'll call 'gas mizer' products were promoted as saving tons of gas. Most were snake oil products that did nothing to improve mileage.

Funny, these posts bring back those memories.   

[cjshaker]

I haven't looked at his videos for a bit, but some of his original videos were of him running his V8 Maverick on a lawn mower carb.  Showed him driving around normally, stopping, starting, etc. and cruising up to 70 mph, then getting out of the car and popping the hood to prove that was what was on there.  But what he discovered was the tiny carb setup actually ran rich (the opposite of what everyone claimed it would).  So he made the "cheater" which was a circuit board and air valve coupled with I believe an AFR probe and his custom software, to pull in extra air (through a filter) as needed below the carb to lean out the mixture to what it needed to be.

That was my understanding of his videos but like I said, I haven't checked in for awhile and just watched a few casually.  But yeah, he seems like a smart guy.

Pat

Okay, so it's a controlled air bleed. That makes sense, at least from a perspective of how it works. I've seen his mower carb videos, and his monster tunnel ram, and yeah, the guy definitely thinks outside the box and seems pretty intuitive. I just don't understand why there is no explanation on the website of what it actually does. From a business perspective, that's not how you typically draw in customers. It does strike me as a huge band-aid though. Still, I like his ingenuity.

[Drew Pojedinec]

So the dynamic he finds himself in…

He made videos of some ideas he had.
I encouraged him to do so, I just love it when “common knowledge” is incorrect. Like “small carb=lean.”

His videos explained exactly what the tools were.
He was nagged to death by thousands to make his parts and control system available.
He did not want to be bothered selling any of it.
Eventually he caved and has produced a bunch, but there are 100 people wanting it for every one he can make. So I am not sure why he would bother advertising stuff or trying to explain what he has had in videos previously.

I suspect it is a common view that if you are in business you are actively trying to sell stuff.
I find myself in the opposite situation, I simply cannot do 80% of the work requested, so I just focus on doing the 20% as well as I can.

[cjshaker]

I suspect it is a common view that if you are in business you are actively trying to sell stuff.

Yes, I would say that is a somewhat common view...that a business would try to sell their product...lol
I get what you're saying though. He's obviously having fun doing what he does. More power to him.

[67xr7cat]

The video does not explain the system, but all the information is there.  Basically is a MAP sensor to determine load, a connection to the distributor for RPM, a connection to the coil hot wire to know when the ignition is on, and what looks like a GM IAC (idle bypass valve) to add extra air in under the carburetor.  This can only lean a richer mixture and is limited to trimming idle and cruise.  He makes clear this is just to help keep the A/F ratio on target.  If your carb is way out it probably won't be able to trim it to the target AFR and if the carb is lean it won't help at all. 

One thing that not sure about is if you can set different target AFR for different loads and RPM's. It looks like it just trims to whatever target AFR you set.  I will say for the price the fact that it has a wide band O2, data logging, and a easy phone app interface is worth it to use just as a tuning tool.  The ignition kill feature is nice too.  Is a neat little product. 

[Drew Pojedinec]

Yes, I would say that is a somewhat common view...that a business would try to sell their product...lol
I get what you're saying though. He's obviously having fun doing what he does. More power to him.

Like myself, he has a full time job.
As I said. Not actively trying to sell.

I’m not actively trying to sell my services either for the same reason. No need to. Also why I turn away 75% of the people who want work done.

[Barry_R]

Controlling the air is kind of clever.  Like an IAC that's always in operation.  Duty cycle control of carburetors on the fuel side was common OEM practice before EFI took over and development ceased.  For a little while Holley offered a duty cycle kit for four barrels that used repurposed OE parts to allow dashboard control of mixture, but without the O2 feedback control of this kit.  I'd wager you could blend the two approaches to get to something really cool, but that would defeat the simplicity of his deal.

[Drew Pojedinec]

Controlling the air is kind of clever.  Like an IAC that's always in operation.  Duty cycle control of carburetors on the fuel side was common OEM practice before EFI took over and development ceased.  For a little while Holley offered a duty cycle kit for four barrels that used repurposed OE parts to allow dashboard control of mixture, but without the O2 feedback control of this kit.  I'd wager you could blend the two approaches to get to something really cool, but that would defeat the simplicity of his deal.

Barry, you would really like this kid.
He made this system and to prove his point he installed a lawn mower carb. Idea was a mower carb would draw so much air on his 302 it would be to rich to run.
He even ran power tour with that setup.
Of course no one understood the reasoning and was like “he runs a mower carb to get economy! Cuz it’s small.”

Anyway, he ran power tour this year with the carb on a six foot pipe. It’s absurd.