Author Topic: SOHC Intake Manifolds  (Read 41889 times)

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cobracammer

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Re: SOHC Intake Manifolds
« Reply #15 on: May 08, 2015, 08:12:01 AM »
SOHC Webber intake was from the Orlando Florida  (the guys name was Wayne Jeffers I believe).  I believe he has since passed away, and that picture you have above look like one of a whole bunch I saved when it sold on ebay a few years ago for over $10,000.00.  I was talking with a foundry as well as a few AutoCAD people and a 3D scanner to start getting these made in the aftermarket world....  But moving jobs and moving states took up my time.  :0(

When this one sold on ebay, I liked it so much, that I saved every picture they had on the ad so that the AutoCAD people could use my Robert Pond intake and those pictures to come up with a "Wire" drawing that I could send to the mold maker  LOL

Even if there wasn't good performance from this piece (and Im not saying there wasn't because I don't know......) it still looks 10 X cooler to have IDA carbs all lined up like that!

Wouldn't have done you much good to "copy" it as it will only fit original 58mm Webers which have a different bolt pattern than the 48mm IDA.

I actually found IDA carbs being made now that would fit and are 58mm and higher if you want to order custom!  Here is a picture of someone else using them on a SOHC motor (I believe).  I also called them to find out about measurements (when I was trying to have webber intakes cast) and they said it would fit..... FWIW

http://www.clubcobra.com/forums/all-cobra-talk/85479-berg-60mm-ida-carb.html

Also there are a ton of places that sell IDA style throttle bodies in 58mm and higher.  I am pretty sure Wayne Jeffers used those on his car that you see pictures of all over the place.  Each IDA has a small fuel rail (only 2 injectors) on it... and they line up perfectly.  :0)
« Last Edit: May 08, 2015, 09:36:59 AM by cobracammer »
Jason
2005 Saleen S281 (427 SOHC 2 X 4 EFI swap), T56 Magnum XL 6 speed, 9" Currie rear with 3.89 Gears

jayb

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Re: SOHC Intake Manifolds
« Reply #16 on: May 08, 2015, 09:35:49 AM »
Yes, I think you would want to go with at least the 58mm Webers if you went the Weber route.
Jay Brown
- 1969 Mach 1, Drag Week 2005 Winner NA/BB, 511" FE (10.60s @ 129); Drag Week 2007 Runner-Up PA/BB, 490" Supercharged FE (9.35 @ 151)
- 1964 Ford Galaxie, Drag Week 2009 Winner Modified NA (9.50s @ 143), 585" SOHC
- 1969 Shelby Clone, Drag Week 2015 Winner Modified NA (Average 8.98 @ 149), 585" SOHC

   

BH107

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Re: SOHC Intake Manifolds
« Reply #17 on: May 08, 2015, 11:46:14 AM »
Alright. Seems silly to give an intake an XE number if it wasn't a Ford part. Beautiful intake though and the dual inline 4's aren't exactly cheap anymore. Do you have any additional info on experimental intakes? I'm sure there are more than what is in this thread, or at least more pictures of some of the rare intakes.

All for looks, just one of those little details that looks cool and fools most people.

BH107

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Re: SOHC Intake Manifolds
« Reply #18 on: May 08, 2015, 12:04:21 PM »
SOHC Webber intake was from the Orlando Florida  (the guys name was Wayne Jeffers I believe).  I believe he has since passed away, and that picture you have above look like one of a whole bunch I saved when it sold on ebay a few years ago for over $10,000.00.  I was talking with a foundry as well as a few AutoCAD people and a 3D scanner to start getting these made in the aftermarket world....  But moving jobs and moving states took up my time.  :0(

When this one sold on ebay, I liked it so much, that I saved every picture they had on the ad so that the AutoCAD people could use my Robert Pond intake and those pictures to come up with a "Wire" drawing that I could send to the mold maker  LOL

Even if there wasn't good performance from this piece (and Im not saying there wasn't because I don't know......) it still looks 10 X cooler to have IDA carbs all lined up like that!

Wouldn't have done you much good to "copy" it as it will only fit original 58mm Webers which have a different bolt pattern than the 48mm IDA.

I actually found IDA carbs being made now that would fit and are 58mm and higher if you want to order custom!  Here is a picture of someone else using them on a SOHC motor (I believe).  I also called them to find out about measurements (when I was trying to have webber intakes cast) and they said it would fit..... FWIW

http://www.clubcobra.com/forums/all-cobra-talk/85479-berg-60mm-ida-carb.html

Also there are a ton of places that sell IDA style throttle bodies in 58mm and higher.  I am pretty sure Wayne Jeffers used those on his car that you see pictures of all over the place.  Each IDA has a small fuel rail (only 2 injectors) on it... and they line up perfectly.  :0)

The bolt pattern on the original 58mm intakes is larger than the 48mm throttle bodies. You would have to modify the intake to make any of the IDA carbs fit, or make an adapter. On top of that like Jay said the 48mm IDA isn't enough carb, and those Bergs or others are extremely expensive.

The other option would be original Hilborn 427-F-8 fuel injection. They are the same pattern as the 58mm Weber, and actually have 62mm throttle bodies. They can be cut in half and modified to run on a stacked manifold like the SOHC version, I've seen it done on the high riser intake.

I have the inline high riser 58mm intake and Hilborn setup on the shelf.

On the other had, the new Hilborn 427-F-8B has the IDA pattern so it can be bolted to the Blue Thunder intakes.

BH107

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Re: SOHC Intake Manifolds
« Reply #19 on: May 08, 2015, 12:06:26 PM »
The only other XE intake I've seen myself had a raised water neck so that a coolant reservoir would clear the timing cover. It was a 4v intake.

Autoholic

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Re: SOHC Intake Manifolds
« Reply #20 on: May 08, 2015, 01:01:17 PM »
I think the main desire to go with a Weber type carb over Hilborn's is the look. It just looks cooler. Can anyone give me the exact bore diameter of the intake port on either the heads or the exit of a manifold? That is what will dictate the largest size Weber you can run.
~Joe
"Autoholism is an incurable addiction medicated daily with car porn."

BH107

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Re: SOHC Intake Manifolds
« Reply #21 on: May 08, 2015, 02:39:00 PM »
I just measured an OEM 4v intake and the port is 54mm at the head.

I measured the Hilborn and it is in fact 62mm, and I would guess the Weber is about the same. Remember that the size on the Webers is the venturi size, not the throttle body size.

I also confirmed that the 58mm Weber bolt pattern is right around 15mm wider than the IDA pattern.

Here is an example of a high riser intake that has been welded up to take the standard IDA sized carbs, these happen to be normal 48IDA carbs. Normally the footprint of the 58mm Weber carb would be the same size as the carb pads for them.


Autoholic

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Re: SOHC Intake Manifolds
« Reply #22 on: May 08, 2015, 05:41:49 PM »
Thanks for that info, it confirms my CAD specs for the port dia. So I take it then the 58 mm IDA's just have less to seal the carb to the intake? If the bolt pattern stays the same, then that would mean there is less support on the bottom. But they are 15 mm wider between the center of the carbs? The 48 mm IDA has a spacing of 90 mm.

This is the diagram I have found to help with this project. The pic is for an IDF, which is identical to the IDA in footprint as far as I can tell. This diagram is for a 40 mm bore. What I've read is that the footprint is the same for the 48 mm bore.



Since the needed IDA is a 58 mm, that means the air fuel mixture would speed up and decrease in pressure due to a 15% increase in area. You want higher pressure, not lower pressure, in an intake. Creating an expansion chamber right before the port might be a good idea, to still create a high pressure area. A holding tank of sorts for the mixture. This is just an idea though and I really don't know if it would be better than just having a gradually decreasing  area through the whole intake runner. In theory, an expansion chamber will help provide the engine with incoming air and fuel. Which brings me to the idea of using a nozzle shape at the outlet port of the intake rather than easing the shape narrower. This causes the air fuel mixture to have to funnel into the intake ports on the head, like having a reservoir. That is one of the reasons why most 4 bbl carb intakes have a valley instead of individual ports. This allows you to have a higher pressure region inside the intake. Lots of different ways you can design an intake to hold the same carb.

Of course I could be entirely wrong in all this thinking. From what I know, I'd think that a nozzle fed by an expansion chamber would be beneficial to the engine. The expansion chamber would go from 58 mm to say 62 or 64 mm in a cone shape. Shortly after reaching 62 or 64 mm, the nozzle would reduce that to 54 mm, a decrease in 8 or 10 mm.  This would create a high pressure region right before entering the intake ports in the heads.
« Last Edit: May 08, 2015, 06:04:28 PM by Autoholic »
~Joe
"Autoholism is an incurable addiction medicated daily with car porn."

BH107

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Re: SOHC Intake Manifolds
« Reply #23 on: May 08, 2015, 06:03:28 PM »
No, the IDF is a completely different carburetor and the centerline of the two throat is closer. An IDF will not bolt up to an IDA intake.

The 58mm IDA that Gene Berg makes is based on the 48mm IDA design, just a larger throat. The 58mm Webers that Ford used in the 60s is a different design completely, not a 58mm IDA. I believe the throat spacing is the same, but overall they are larger as showed above. The 15mm wider spacing is between the bolts for each individual bore, not centerline of the throats. The setup below would have been welded up and the studs moved closer together on each runner. And yes you are correct that there is less gasket seal on the 58mm IDA carbs because of the larger throat.

Autoholic

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Re: SOHC Intake Manifolds
« Reply #24 on: May 08, 2015, 06:06:58 PM »
Thanks for that info, again. Do you happen to know what the distance is between the top two and bottom two bolt holes? Or the distance between the centers of the two intake bores?
~Joe
"Autoholism is an incurable addiction medicated daily with car porn."

BH107

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Re: SOHC Intake Manifolds
« Reply #25 on: May 08, 2015, 07:53:45 PM »
Thanks for that info, again. Do you happen to know what the distance is between the top two and bottom two bolt holes? Or the distance between the centers of the two intake bores?

My intake is at my shop, so I won't be able to measure until Monday. I'll see if I can dig up a 48mm IDA this weekend in the Garage.

TimeWarpF100

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Re: SOHC Intake Manifolds
« Reply #26 on: May 08, 2015, 10:43:33 PM »
How about a 58 IDA manifold that was lettered COMET supposed to be 1 of only 2 made! I will have to see if I can dig up some pics. XE part number was supposed to be for one of the flip top funny cars. I forget which one or who it was built for to test.

When I had the SOHC , the manifold was on it but it had been converted to EFI

TimeWarpF100

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Re: SOHC Intake Manifolds
« Reply #27 on: May 08, 2015, 10:46:57 PM »
Found one of car but trying to find the pic's of manifold.


TimeWarpF100

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Re: SOHC Intake Manifolds
« Reply #28 on: May 08, 2015, 10:51:13 PM »
Found another of car with the 427 comet & cobra. No manifold pics yet . .


Barry_R

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Re: SOHC Intake Manifolds
« Reply #29 on: May 09, 2015, 04:27:10 AM »