Author Topic: My FE Powered 1966 F100 "Project"  (Read 98037 times)

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Heo

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Re: My FE Powered 1966 F100 "Project"
« Reply #210 on: March 30, 2019, 02:22:35 PM »
The truck looks unreal, To perfect just like it was animated



The defenition of a Gentleman, is a man that can play the accordion.But dont do it

TimeWarpF100

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Re: My FE Powered 1966 F100 "Project"
« Reply #211 on: March 30, 2019, 03:45:06 PM »
The truck looks unreal, To perfect just like it was animated

Ha! Thanks!

That pic was actually taken with my cell phone. Cell phone will only allow one photo at a time.

TimeWarpF100

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Re: My FE Powered 1966 F100 "Project"
« Reply #212 on: March 30, 2019, 03:51:14 PM »
After starting from scratch with the tune and now having the proper latest Software changes loaded on the handheld (that took some doing to figure out)

I am 100% convinced most if not all running issues are related to the IAC sync between the 2 throttle bodies. In the instructions it says at idle the IAC steps should read between 3-10 that was originally set but with each change like initial timing the IAC numbers change. It says if number low to turn the adjustment screw out and if high to turn adjustment screw in. With these Dual Quads those numbers go opposite way. Not sure if a printing error or what.

But, I can hear big changes in idle quality with small adjustments to those screws. When Idle smooths out the IAC numbers are way out of whack.

I think I need a pair of carbs from Drew to get a baseline on how it should run! Too bad I sold the new Quick Fuel carbs. Along with the NOS BT/BU's.

Heo

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Re: My FE Powered 1966 F100 "Project"
« Reply #213 on: March 30, 2019, 04:17:41 PM »
The truck looks unreal, To perfect just like it was animated

Ha! Thanks!

That pic was actually taken with my cell phone. Cell phone will only allow one photo at a time.
Cell phone cameras have come a long way. I remember the first ones, took marginaly better photos
than a potato :D



The defenition of a Gentleman, is a man that can play the accordion.But dont do it

TimeWarpF100

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Re: My FE Powered 1966 F100 "Project"
« Reply #214 on: April 05, 2019, 11:01:17 PM »
Removed FiTech

Installed borrowed carbs ran great with carbs upon startup but
After 40 miles it was flooding.
Parked until I can get proper carbs from Drew

Edit : I have no clue why these photo's are so large. Still using same link method I have always used.








« Last Edit: April 06, 2019, 04:21:58 PM by TimeWarpF100 »

KMcCullah

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Re: My FE Powered 1966 F100 "Project"
« Reply #215 on: April 06, 2019, 10:22:08 AM »
Now THAT'S a proper looking FE!  8) No doubt Drew will deliver some killer carbs, but don't give up on the Fitech stuff. From watching that episode of Carfix (season 7- episode 9) where Jared and Lou tweeked the dual Fitech's on Jason's Cammer Saleen, it was tricky to set up. But they got there finally. Seemed like it took some setting that went against what the instructions and the Fitech gurus said to do.

It'll be interesting to see how the carbs work in the AZ heat. I ended up wrapping the Holley on my 416 with space blanket to keep it from boiling.  ::)
Kevin McCullah


TimeWarpF100

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Re: My FE Powered 1966 F100 "Project"
« Reply #216 on: April 06, 2019, 10:53:05 AM »
Now THAT'S a proper looking FE!  8) No doubt Drew will deliver some killer carbs, but don't give up on the Fitech stuff. From watching that episode of Carfix (season 7- episode 9) where Jared and Lou tweeked the dual Fitech's on Jason's Cammer Saleen, it was tricky to set up. But they got there finally. Seemed like it took some setting that went against what the instructions and the Fitech gurus said to do.

It'll be interesting to see how the carbs work in the AZ heat. I ended up wrapping the Holley on my 416 with space blanket to keep it from boiling.  ::)

No idea why those photo's are so big.

Have not seen the episode re: Jason's Cammer. Do you have a link to it?

I have not given up on the FiTech yet but after 4000.00+ trying to get it working proper I wanted to try the carbs as I have simply ran out of time to work on truck. 98% of my time over last 6 months has been spent on truck I simply do not have time to mess with it at moment. Also no $$ to keep dumping into it. Of all the places I have lived this area is the WORST for testing. Great place to live but 5 cops every mile.

The plan is to try the Carbs from Drew then do a total back to back comparison with the FiTech. After driving the truck with the Holley's it was quite clear why I wanted to try EFI.  Just the fact of having to remove bowls, change needle & seats, or adjust float level, remove idle mixture screws and squirt carb cleaner out is enough to make me not want carbs. As you mentioned in the AZ heat its not a matter of if but a matter of when a issue will crop up.

I would like to know what Jason did for throttle linkage as with stock FiTech no return springs it takes about 100 lb pressure on throttle pedal to get them to move. Crappy design.

So plan is:

Install carbs from Drew then drive to check idle, throttle response, driveability and MPG along with how I like them overall. (like the looks of carbs better)

Then spend big $$ converting back to the FiTech and doing the same. Go over entire system once again to see what it takes to make the FiTech work. One thing about the FiTech is I had ZERO fuel leaks ever. No seeping or fuel mess to deal with.

But, Once again its a HUGE time issue for me right now. I got so far behind of doing only this truck for 6 months I may never catch up on other stuff again.

The cam swap was also another time killer. At this point it made little to no difference in power and how it drives overall. As a matter of fact the truck ran much better with prior cam. Surely not worth the time or $$ spent so far. I will leave that open until I get carbs working proper and also the EFI.

New cam has no more vacuum than the old.  Idle changed a bit but EFI issues at same time.

One thing I did notice with carbs is it would idle better at a much lower RPM. Complete opposite from what I would have thought with the EFI.

I now have the new handheld and software for the EFI but had to convert so much to run carbs it will take a bit to convert back to EFI again.


TimeWarpF100

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Re: My FE Powered 1966 F100 "Project"
« Reply #217 on: April 06, 2019, 11:10:22 AM »
Now THAT'S a proper looking FE!  8) No doubt Drew will deliver some killer carbs, but don't give up on the Fitech stuff. From watching that episode of Carfix (season 7- episode 9) where Jared and Lou tweeked the dual Fitech's on Jason's Cammer Saleen, it was tricky to set up. But they got there finally. Seemed like it took some setting that went against what the instructions and the Fitech gurus said to do.

It'll be interesting to see how the carbs work in the AZ heat. I ended up wrapping the Holley on my 416 with space blanket to keep it from boiling.  ::)

I think the Tunnel Wedge will help a lot with carb heat because
It’s all open underneath. Another is cooling system working very well as engine temps lowest
On any FE I have owned.

Barry_R

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Re: My FE Powered 1966 F100 "Project"
« Reply #218 on: April 06, 2019, 01:06:33 PM »
Wonder if you could have just "killed" the IAC and set idle with the stop screws like a carb.  I do that on my car although I am tuning with an old Fuel-Pro EFI box that is not self learning.
Also wonder if FiTech has all the throttle blades cut on the correct angle (7 degrees if I recall correctly) and level to each other.  I know that the Holley Sniper throttle body has a nicer  - although not as pretty - throttle linkage setup.

My427stang

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Re: My FE Powered 1966 F100 "Project"
« Reply #219 on: April 06, 2019, 03:27:53 PM »
I am 100% sure you had EFI setup issues, the FItech is so adjustable you can get it to do anything you want, if it wasn't behaving, something wasn't right.  I am not certain it's the handheld either unless you say you couldn't access the advanced tuning. 

The issue is, it really takes some study time and work to understand the relationship of parts, What will make the carb conversion fussy is lack of vacuum advance.  The way you intend to use the truck is natural for EFI, but even without it, should have a good vacuum advance distributor.

That new cam is right for the engine, far better than the last one for your use, once you get it dialed in with whichever induction system you use, you'll see.

Not sure what you used for a distributor, but did you put a steel gear on it?

Hope it works out, no doubt Dtrew's carbs will be good, and even if it doesn't seem like it, the cam will make the carbs work better too with OD
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Ross
Bullock's Power Service, LLC
- 70 Fastback Mustang, 489 cid FE, Victor, SEFI, Erson SFT cam, TKO-600 5 speed, 4.11 9 inch.
- 71 F100 shortbed 4x4, 461 cid FE, headers, Victor Pro-flo EFI, Comp Custom HFT cam, 3.50 9 inch

TimeWarpF100

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Re: My FE Powered 1966 F100 "Project"
« Reply #220 on: April 06, 2019, 03:44:30 PM »
Wonder if you could have just "killed" the IAC and set idle with the stop screws like a carb.  I do that on my car although I am tuning with an old Fuel-Pro EFI box that is not self learning.
Also wonder if FiTech has all the throttle blades cut on the correct angle (7 degrees if I recall correctly) and level to each other.  I know that the Holley Sniper throttle body has a nicer  - although not as pretty - throttle linkage setup.

I did notice right before I was taking throttle bodies off they were not at all synced. First primaries on front then primaries and secondaries on rear then secondaries on front. I did notice when I installed them the throttle lever angles were quite a bit different from each other. I called tech to ask and was told to leave them alone. Just turn primary throttle plates in 1/2 turn each then adjust by numbers while running for IAC. When I followed instructions it flat out did not run right.

FiTech says adjust initially then only change setting with primary unit which in this case is rear. Problem with that nonsense is any change to linkage rods throws it all out of window.  Also any timing or other changes and one had to re-set IAC.

One throttle body would be cakewalk in comparison.

Still learning how to adjust things but giving carbs a try first.

Without question the truck itself is a total dream truck, love everything about it other than how it runs. Mostly a idle issue.  Brakes are nothing short of fantastic, Ride & handling with the large engineered sway bar made a 1000% difference. Just total enjoyable to drive. One way or another will get the fueling issue fixed so I can really enjoy it.
« Last Edit: April 06, 2019, 04:14:04 PM by TimeWarpF100 »

TimeWarpF100

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Re: My FE Powered 1966 F100 "Project"
« Reply #221 on: April 06, 2019, 03:47:17 PM »
I am 100% sure you had EFI setup issues, the FItech is so adjustable you can get it to do anything you want, if it wasn't behaving, something wasn't right.  I am not certain it's the handheld either unless you say you couldn't access the advanced tuning. 

I am quite sure it’s setup issue too. Some things with dual quad do not work like single.
New handheld has different software vs old. Tried to make work but did not want to accept the DCX file.


The issue is, it really takes some study time and work to understand the relationship of parts, What will make the carb conversion fussy is lack of vacuum advance.  The way you intend to use the truck is natural for EFI, but even without it, should have a good vacuum advance distributor.

I bought a new distributor with vacuum advance along with a Crane Cams Steel Gear. I just have not installed it yet. I also noticed I have much stronger vacuum with the carbs now as brakes much better but I did not put a gauge on it to see what it was.

That new cam is right for the engine, far better than the last one for your use, once you get it dialed in with whichever induction system you use, you'll see.

I am sure the cam should be a bunch better but will not reap the rewards until I get it running proper.

Not sure what you used for a distributor, but did you put a steel gear on it?

Distributor used with the FiTech was a new mechanical from MSD as I was running locked timing with it done thru the EFI and yep it had a steel gear. I was advised by FiTech the locked unit would be the best it costed me around 400.00 from MSD

Right before I pulled the throttle bodies I had once again put the timing light on it and the timing was jumping all over the map at idle. When I first installed them and it was running better the timing did not do that at idle. Most likely reason for rolling idle where it had no clue what to do. Again part of the FiTech software, I was told by them the new software should help a bunch of issues. FiTech actually messed with the settings when I was at goodguys scottsdale.  The tech came back to truck when I was in Winners circle to check it out but the truck failed to start (bad fuel pump hose connection when warm) Truck never ran right after that. Prior to that it was running pretty decent.

Hope it works out, no doubt Dtrew's carbs will be good, and even if it doesn't seem like it, the cam will make the carbs work better too with OD

Right now to try out the carbs I had a mechanical distributor with steel gear I dropped in as I had not installed the new steel gear on the vacuum advance distributor I had just picked up.

Plan is to install the vacuum advance distributor when I install the carbs from Drew. After trying out the carbs I plan on re-installing the FiTech units and start from scratch also using the vacuum advance distributor I just bought vs letting the fitech deal with timing. I think that part was of major concern.

Prior to re-install of fitech throttle bodies I plan on making a few adjustments so they are both the same especially when one can visually see they are different from each other with throttle angle.

What do you recommend for timing curve with the new vacuum distributor and carbs/efi?

Engine seemed to like 12-14 initial but did not try any more than that. Once the carbs started to act up I just parked it for now until carbs from Drew show up.  I am flat out of time I can work on truck until I get caught up with other stuff.
« Last Edit: April 06, 2019, 04:07:26 PM by TimeWarpF100 »

KMcCullah

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Re: My FE Powered 1966 F100 "Project"
« Reply #222 on: April 06, 2019, 09:01:57 PM »
Now THAT'S a proper looking FE!  8) No doubt Drew will deliver some killer carbs, but don't give up on the Fitech stuff. From watching that episode of Carfix (season 7- episode 9) where Jared and Lou tweeked the dual Fitech's on Jason's Cammer Saleen, it was tricky to set up. But they got there finally. Seemed like it took some setting that went against what the instructions and the Fitech gurus said to do.

It'll be interesting to see how the carbs work in the AZ heat. I ended up wrapping the Holley on my 416 with space blanket to keep it from boiling.  ::)

Have not seen the episode re: Jason's Cammer. Do you have a link to it?

Here's a YouTube link but it's the pay per view kind.  ::)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RqP0YhOoObQ

Kevin McCullah


Barry_R

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Re: My FE Powered 1966 F100 "Project"
« Reply #223 on: April 07, 2019, 07:08:47 AM »
If I were to try the EFI again I would do just that - - get all the throttle blades exactly the same first.

I would be tempted to toss the IAC mounted on each throttle body and run a single remote one connected to a central vacuum source - if I ran one at all.

My427stang

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Re: My FE Powered 1966 F100 "Project"
« Reply #224 on: April 07, 2019, 07:56:23 AM »
With the carbs,

I would run initial to get total where I wanted it if not recurving.  However, if I was building the distributor, I would want initial higher, like 16-18 to start.  The old cam needed that more initial than this one, but the big intake and low RPM cruise in OD will want all the initial it can handle.

Your throttle blade challenge is not over with the carbs either, you need to make sure both sets of primaries (and best if all) are not dipping into the transition circuits.

If you are running a vacuum advance later, you have two options.  You could run 16 initial, 36-38 total and then add ported vacuum to the can.  Or you could in your case, run manifold vacuum.  I don't love doing that, but in your setup it could add to the high vacuum mileage and drivability when in OD.  It'd be worth a try.  initial and total stay the same in that case, but you would likely have to lower the idle equally on both carbs compared to with the vacuum from a ported source

Be sure your new gear is at the correct height on any distributor, nothing worse than fragging a motor because a roll pin or gear breaks...

With the EFI  Same goal, more initial timing, equal blade location and as much timing as you can get to it on part throttle cruise

The timing should be set before you do your final throttle adjustments and IAB setup.  Consider the timing as a mechanical function, even though it is adjustable.  Initial and total are hard numbers, then you can tweak how fast it comes in after. With EFI, I would want the crank timing a little lower, maybe 10-12, and then as soon as it fires, idle should be around 20-22.  Additionally , if you look in your instructions, there are a ton of adjustments at different "KPA", these are adjustments for timing at different load based on vacuum.  When vacuum is high, you want more advance, the key focus is your 50-75 mph light throttle cruise.

But then, and what I think is most critical, after the timing limits are set,  I would,  in absolute detail,  learn how the throttle blade, IAB and TPS relearn function works and set them up the way the computer expects them to be set up.  I agree with Barry that two IABs are goofy if that is how it works, IMO, unless there is a reason one cannot open enough or fast enough, which I doubt the issue is. Regardless if that is how the program works, so be it.

In the end, the throttle blades primary and secondary should be matched, and set so that it takes a certain amount of IAB to idle.  Usually, with the IAB unplugged, the engine barely idles, then the IAB adds a little air to get it to the idle speed you want.  This allows it to compensate for things like A/C, PS, etc without being too far open.  Remember, any time you adjust a throttle blade, you have to relearn TPS or it thinks you have your foot on the pedal.  My opinion for later, not having read the setup for yours is.

1 - Adjust blades to match each other without being fully closed
2 - Fire engine, go through setup, to include TPS limits, initial and total timing, and air fuel goals,
3 - Check IAB values
4 - If required, adjust both throttle blades equally (don't screw with initial timing anymore)
5 - Reset TPS values
6 - Check IAB values
7 - Repeat if necessary from step three until you have the proper IAB
8 - Once idle setting is where you want it, start playing with load-adjusted timing (KpA in your instructions)



---------------------------------
Ross
Bullock's Power Service, LLC
- 70 Fastback Mustang, 489 cid FE, Victor, SEFI, Erson SFT cam, TKO-600 5 speed, 4.11 9 inch.
- 71 F100 shortbed 4x4, 461 cid FE, headers, Victor Pro-flo EFI, Comp Custom HFT cam, 3.50 9 inch