Poll

Which of the following intake manifold tops should I build for the intake adapter?

Single Plane Dominator Flanged Spider Intake
8 (22.2%)
2X4 Single Plane Intake Similar to a Tunnel Wedge
12 (33.3%)
2X4 Tunnel Ram, in Sheet Metal Intake Style
16 (44.4%)

Total Members Voted: 31

Author Topic: Dedicated Upper Manifold for the Intake Adapter  (Read 20021 times)

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jayb

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Dedicated Upper Manifold for the Intake Adapter
« on: December 19, 2014, 03:34:36 PM »
Despite the current delays at the foundry, I've been relatively happy with how the FE intake adapter project has gone over the last year or so.  By March or April I'm hoping to be all caught up on deliveries of these, and sometime in January I expect to put the new timing covers up for sale.  So, I'm looking to start another casting project this year, and one that comes to mind right away is a dedicated intake manifold top, or upper manifold, to fit on the intake adapter.

Doing a dedicated upper manifold for my adapter has some advantages over using a standard 351C intake.  One advantage has to do with port alignment; because of the smaller bore spacing of a 351C engine, the outboard ports in the adapter are angled somewhat to get the #1, #4, #5, and #8 ports in the heads to line up with the same ports in the 351C manifold.  This doesn't seem to have a major effect on power production up to 650 horsepower or so, but of course at the limit a straighter port is better, and since I can easily change the porting programs for the adapter, I could cast a custom upper manifold to fit without requiring the angled ports.  I also like the idea of making the upper manifold a two piece unit, that could be split apart down the center of the plenum for porting purposes.  And with control of the casting, I could add material to allow widening the intake ports towards the center of the engine, and also to raise them if desired.  Material could also be added to allow machining holes for fuel injectors in case EFI was used, and also to leave enough material at the flange so that the upper manifold would work with either the standard medium riser adapter, or the high riser adapter.  Finally, with control of both the intake adapter and the upper manifold, I could cut the upper manifold for O-ring grooves, and use O-rings to seal the upper manifold to the intake adapter, eliminating the need for another set of gaskets.

I've been thinking about this for a few months now, and the problem that I've been wrestling with is what upper manifold to build.  I have three different ones in mind, and at some point I may end up building all three, but for now I just need to get started on the design and tooling for one of them.  So, I put the poll up to get some feedback from forum members on which one is of most interest.  Here are some details on the upper manifolds I'm considering:

** Single Plane Dominator Flanged Spider Intake - This would be similar to an Edelbrock Victor intake in appearance, but it would end up being quite a bit taller, at least 2" and maybe more.  Designed for 4500-8500 RPM operation with a Dominator carb.  The idea is to be a step above the Victor in single plane performance.

** 2X4 Single Plane Intake Similar to a Tunnel Wedge - This would be an upper manifold that basically duplicated the design and performance of the tunnel wedge intake, and also duplicated the carb position so that it would fit under the hood of most FE vehicles.  I would envision a carb mounting pad that would allow the standard 4150 carb arrangement, or mounting 4150 carbs sideways so that a couple of double pumpers could be used if desired.  And of course the carbs would be spaced so that the ubiquitous oval air cleaners would fit.

** 2X4 Tunnel Ram, in Sheet Metal Intake Style - this upper manifold would feature straight runners and a V-shaped plenum like a new sheet metal intake, but would be cast aluminum instead.  It would probably be a three piece design, with a billet aluminum top and cast runners/plenum.  I'd design it to work with the factory distributor location, rather than with an offset distributor.  Runner length would be optimized for tuning at 7000 RPM.

All of these upper manifolds would have the features described earlier.  One caveat, though, is that I don't know for sure if, or when, I'd make one of these upper manifolds available.  Its something I'd like to do, but its tough to predict availability of the time and funds for this kind of project.  So, no promises of any sort on this.

Which manifold do you think I should build?
Jay Brown
- 1969 Mach 1, Drag Week 2005 Winner NA/BB, 511" FE (10.60s @ 129); Drag Week 2007 Runner-Up PA/BB, 490" Supercharged FE (9.35 @ 151)
- 1964 Ford Galaxie, Drag Week 2009 Winner Modified NA (9.50s @ 143), 585" SOHC
- 1969 Shelby Clone, Drag Week 2015 Winner Modified NA (Average 8.98 @ 149), 585" SOHC

   

jholmes217

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Re: Dedicated Upper Manifold for the Intake Adapter
« Reply #1 on: December 19, 2014, 03:44:57 PM »
I say go for the tunnel ram Jay.  Pro Street seems to be making a come-back, so they want something sticking out of the hood.
Jeff
1969 Mach 1 Q code 428 Cobra Jet
4 speed, 3:50 traction lock
Olympia WA. area

Joe-JDC

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Re: Dedicated Upper Manifold for the Intake Adapter
« Reply #2 on: December 19, 2014, 03:46:40 PM »
Since you have asked, be aware that BBM is casting a new Tunnel Wedge intake for the FE that matches their new heads.  It is supposed to have a smaller cross section in the runners for better velocity.  If so, then you would lose a lot of potential buyers there.  The high rise single four to be a step above the Victor would be nice for racing, but limited for street use because of the hood clearance issues.  A tunnel ram is still race/show car/some street usage, and not allowed in some states on the street for visibility issues, smog requirements, etc.  Not to be negative, but a good single 4V will probably sell more units, but there are those of us who would still want a TW style intake that is removeable.  Joe-JDC
Joe-JDC '70GT-500

482supersnake

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Re: Dedicated Upper Manifold for the Intake Adapter
« Reply #3 on: December 19, 2014, 03:48:15 PM »
I like option #2. Even though not ideal, there are lots of single 4 options but only a tunnel ram option for the 2x4.  A tunnel wedge style intake would be where I would start.

482supersnake

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Re: Dedicated Upper Manifold for the Intake Adapter
« Reply #4 on: December 19, 2014, 04:00:27 PM »
M & M also already make a Cleveland tunnel ram like you described, albeit expensive, http://www.racingjunk.com/Intake-Manifolds/1553816/SB2.2-SPLAYED-VALVE-SBX-CAST-TUNNEL-RAM.html

frankenfords

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Re: Dedicated Upper Manifold for the Intake Adapter
« Reply #5 on: December 19, 2014, 04:54:39 PM »
I know that many of us in FE land are using the engines to power 2 ton behemoths, and a lot of us use the vehicles predominantly for the street, two applications that favor the production of low to mid range torque as opposed to top end horsepower. That said, the idea of a very long runner dual plane, something along the lines of the now defunct McFarland Tork-Link (see links http://www.latemodelracer.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1327786043 , http://www.hotrod.com/events/coverage/0301phr-rmouse/ ) that was somewhat popular in the circle track world for SBC's sounds very, very appealing, and I think it would definitely have a market. Weiand did something similar for the Mopar guys with a long runner 6 pack intake too (see link http://www.forbbodiesonly.com/moparforum/showthread.php?53612-WTB-weiand-tunnel-ram-6-pack-intake ).

Granted, hood room many be an issue depending on how tall the manifold would be designed to be, but for the buyer considering a dedicated race style spider type intake anyway, I can't see how that would be a deal breaker.

Having the option of switching between a dual plane and a single plane, or even a dual quad intake, for tuning and driveability purposes could help this adapter find it's way into that many more peoples garages. Right now there are no dual plane intakes on the market that could be made to be functional with the manifold adapter. The Blue Thunder intake, which is based on the old Ford Power Parts over the counter intake, has the ports arranged in a such a format that it would cause distributor interference issues.

As a guy who drives 2 ton behemoths on the street, having an option that would promote low end and mid range torque for around town, while being able to swap to a combo set up for glory runs in an hour or less without loss of fluids, would be the icing on the cake!

Brett

« Last Edit: December 19, 2014, 05:20:19 PM by frankenfords »

wayne

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Re: Dedicated Upper Manifold for the Intake Adapter
« Reply #6 on: December 19, 2014, 07:17:38 PM »
I will go a different way a new tri power with 3 500 holleys that will work on a big fe on the street . Things have come a long way sence 1961. They still look good when you open the hood.

ToddK

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Re: Dedicated Upper Manifold for the Intake Adapter
« Reply #7 on: December 19, 2014, 07:33:47 PM »
Speaking only from my own requirements, it would be a toss up between option #2 and #3. I'm on the list for one of Jay's high riser intake adapters and plan to use it on my race engine. So, since I plan on making maximum power at roughly 7000rpm, I guess my preference would be for option #3. But, I do like the look of the tunnel wedge and to have the option of using a pair of sideways mounted double pumpers would be great.

Tommy-T

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Re: Dedicated Upper Manifold for the Intake Adapter
« Reply #8 on: December 19, 2014, 09:04:36 PM »
I'd be more interested in the tunnel ram...but I gotta ask, how much power would it be worth over the Weiand unit in a 7000rpm limited motor? By that I mean under 500cu.in., under .700 lift, 12:1 max compression. You know...a normal grocery getter.

If I didn't have junk stick'n out'a my hood...I'd forget there's a motor in there!

jayb

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Re: Dedicated Upper Manifold for the Intake Adapter
« Reply #9 on: December 19, 2014, 11:12:16 PM »
I'd be more interested in the tunnel ram...but I gotta ask, how much power would it be worth over the Weiand unit in a 7000rpm limited motor? By that I mean under 500cu.in., under .700 lift, 12:1 max compression. You know...a normal grocery getter.

If I didn't have junk stick'n out'a my hood...I'd forget there's a motor in there!

LOL!  I'm right with you on the metal protruding through the hood.  Was always partial to those 8 injector stacks coming through the hood of my Galaxie.  Truth be told, I don't know how much power, if any, a sheet metal style manifold would make over the Weiand tunnel ram and 351C intake adapter.  I suppose it would depend on the engine.  I'd be leaning towards that intake because nobody else makes something like that for the FE...
Jay Brown
- 1969 Mach 1, Drag Week 2005 Winner NA/BB, 511" FE (10.60s @ 129); Drag Week 2007 Runner-Up PA/BB, 490" Supercharged FE (9.35 @ 151)
- 1964 Ford Galaxie, Drag Week 2009 Winner Modified NA (9.50s @ 143), 585" SOHC
- 1969 Shelby Clone, Drag Week 2015 Winner Modified NA (Average 8.98 @ 149), 585" SOHC

   

Qikbbstang

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Re: Dedicated Upper Manifold for the Intake Adapter
« Reply #10 on: December 20, 2014, 01:17:38 AM »
By your own book, the near impossible to find Dove cast tunnel ram was unmatched in power. If you are going through the hoops casting a top how much more elaborate is it to cast a copy of the Dove?.....

plovett

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Re: Dedicated Upper Manifold for the Intake Adapter
« Reply #11 on: December 20, 2014, 08:15:16 AM »
I say the Tunnel Ram.  Like you said Jay, that is the configuration that is not currently being produced for the FE.  1x4 single plane Dominators are being produced. Several Tunnel Wedges are being produced.  The tunnel ram stands out in that respect.

I think it's really cool that you're making this stuff, Jay!   

JMO,

paulie
« Last Edit: December 20, 2014, 11:50:49 AM by plovett »

NewFalconOwner

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Re: Dedicated Upper Manifold for the Intake Adapter
« Reply #12 on: December 20, 2014, 08:32:09 AM »
Id love a sheet metal tunnel ram. would you build injector tube bung drill outs in those??the removeable top would be cool for carbs or just a lid for those wanting to use fuel injection. I know i built my fuel injection tunnel ram but I would like a sheet metal one instead of the Weiand one :)

Dumpling

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Re: Dedicated Upper Manifold for the Intake Adapter
« Reply #13 on: December 20, 2014, 09:34:04 AM »
I'd be interested in a valley mounted exhaust system to mount a turbo to, close to the head.  Don't know if the heads could just be flipped side-to-side, or what might be involved in getting the intake vs. exhaust flow ratios to work in the flipped heads...just thinking.

Is an IR crossram not an option?
« Last Edit: December 20, 2014, 09:35:52 AM by Dumpling »

jayb

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Re: Dedicated Upper Manifold for the Intake Adapter
« Reply #14 on: December 20, 2014, 10:03:04 AM »

Is an IR crossram not an option?

Actually, Borla has got that covered.  They are working on adapting the IR runners from their 351W intake to my adapter.  I delivered a copy of my intake adapter to them a few months ago.  At the PRI show I got a chance to look over their 351W crossram and it looks like it would work fine on an FE, at least up to 600 HP or so.  The IR crossram has eight individual castings for the runners; each one has its own throttle body and velocity stack.  They are bolted to a common 351W base.  Borla is planning to use the same runners, modified slightly so that they will bolt to my adapter.

There's some CAD drawings of what they are planning on page 32 of the FE intake adapter thread in the Member Projects section; link below:

http://fepower.net/simplemachinesforum/index.php?topic=683.msg15131#msg15131
Jay Brown
- 1969 Mach 1, Drag Week 2005 Winner NA/BB, 511" FE (10.60s @ 129); Drag Week 2007 Runner-Up PA/BB, 490" Supercharged FE (9.35 @ 151)
- 1964 Ford Galaxie, Drag Week 2009 Winner Modified NA (9.50s @ 143), 585" SOHC
- 1969 Shelby Clone, Drag Week 2015 Winner Modified NA (Average 8.98 @ 149), 585" SOHC