427 stroker build

[plovett]

The intake might be more the issue than the heads if it's the one i'm thinking of with a gigantic plenum volume and huge runners.

That's a good point, Tom.  What about that?  That is, replacing the High Riser Tunnel Wedge with a factory Hi Riser dual plane intake?  Maybe add filler to the heads and intake, too?

paulie

edit:  Here's a side by side pic of the "normal" medium riser Tunnel Wedge and the hi riser version from Dove:



edit:  Just for comparison,  factory Ford 2x4 and 1x4 high riser intake manifolds.  I believe there are two versions of the factory 2x4 intake, differing in the "connecting port" and maybe other ways?

[machoneman]

Wow! Had never seen a Dove Hi-Riser intake in person but your pics really point out just how huge those passages and plenum are. Now I wonder did anyone successfully run this intake years ago since at 427 CID it seems to be way too big? For drag racing one would need I guess to have a light weight stick car leaving at redline while for a track car it would need to be a big track with WOT all the way around. Has anyone here run it?     

[jayb]

I've got one, but I'm skeered to run it 

Actually, I built a sheet metal intake to run on my high riser instead.  I just didn't like the looks of the Dove intake...

[My427stang]

Looking at the pictures I'd definitely run the Dove

Instead of filling the heads, fill the intake plenum and ports and make a straight shot at the top half of the high riser head port.  Easy to port, and I bet you could just put a clean valve job on the big heads and do just fine

[plovett]

Just throwing this out there as a pie in the sky thought.   What about running a medium riser Tunnel Wedge on Hi Riser heads?

Intake manifolds with big mismatches (to the heads) have run well before, both with the intake bigger, and with intake smaller.

again, just a thought to be thrown into the crucible.

paulie

[blykins]

Depends where the mismatch is....

If the intake port is much smaller and well "contained" inside the cylinder head port opening, then I wouldn't bat an eye at it for something that needs velocity.  You'd be surprised on how well some intakes work out of the box without any port matching or porting. 

If the intake port roof is higher than the roof of the head port opening, then you have a problem....

[plovett]

Depends where the mismatch is....

If the intake port is much smaller and well "contained" inside the cylinder head port opening, then I wouldn't bat an eye at it for something that needs velocity.  You'd be surprised on how well some intakes work out of the box without any port matching or porting. 

If the intake port roof is higher than the roof of the head port opening, then you have a problem....

That makes sense, BUT I have read that 385 series Fords have run well with CJ intakes on D0VE heads and Big Block Chevy's have run well with rectangle port intakes on oval port heads.  I don't know for certain if the intake port roof is higher than the cylinder head port in those examples.  I would suspect so, though.  It seems like a horrible mismatch, but apparently it works in some situations.

In this case, that is a MR Tunnel Wedge intake on a HR head, I assume the intake manifold roof is lower.  I'm not saying it's necessarily a good idea.  Just throwing it out there.

paulie

[blykins]

Could very well work....

I've seen two separate cases where the intake port roof was higher than the roof of the head port opening.  One was a 427 inch SBF, and the other was a 427 inch FE.  Both had reversion issues, with otherwise mild-ish combinations of parts.  In both cases, you could look down the plenum (one was a single plane, the other was a dual) with a light or a borescope and see probably 1/4" of head.  IMO, the roof is more important than the floor, and when you have an intake charge moving down the intake runner, hitting the head like that is like hitting a wall and the charge can't do much except back up or stall.

[plovett]

Looking at the pictures I'd definitely run the Dove

Ross, I have a Dove MR Tunnel Wedge.  It is ported by Joe Craine  (Thanks Joe!).  It flows 470+ cfm per port.  I would say that's a lot.  What I'm getting at is what type of engine can effectively use the Dove HR Tunnel Wedge?  If a ported MR Tunnel Wedge flows 470 cfm, what the heck is a HR Tunnel Wedge going to be "right" for?  It's going to have to be serious motor.  What do you think?

paulie

[CaptCobrajet]

It would take some creative milling of the valve cover rail on the heads to do it.  It can be done.  I have moved the valve covers around on various combos for years.  The angle change would work in your favor going to a MR Tunnel Wedge, but you would have to weld the tops of the runners in order to seal the gasket at the top of the HR head port.

I did a 520 inch 11:1 street engine that made 800 hp on pump gas with the Dove HR, but it had a really good head on it, and I filled the Dove intake extensively.  I would not want to do it again.......... it would be cheaper to build a tunnel ram.

[Barry_R]

I've put medium riser intakes on high riser heads on my EMC stuff a couple times.  Not for the timid - but do-able.  We moved the heads inboard and angle milled them, which pinched the angle up in the middle and helped.  Then I ran 1/4 inch thick gaskets/spacers and valve cover spacers, and china wall spacers, and a distributor sleeve and - - you get the picture?

[My427stang]

Looking at the pictures I'd definitely run the Dove

Ross, I have a Dove MR Tunnel Wedge.  It is ported by Joe Craine  (Thanks Joe!).  It flows 470+ cfm per port.  I would say that's a lot.  What I'm getting at is what type of engine can effectively use the Dove HR Tunnel Wedge?  If a ported MR Tunnel Wedge flows 470 cfm, what the heck is a HR Tunnel Wedge going to be "right" for?  It's going to have to be serious motor.  What do you think?

paulie

Oh I agree that siting on the table it's too big, but look at the entire comment.

Fill that plenum and port floor and make it like a Chi-type intake using the top half of the intake manifold.   The head port volume is tiny compared to the intake, if you had that intake bondo'd up making a fast port right at the top of the head, it'd roll right around the short side radius without looking back

Hell fill the whole intake and bore a 2 1/4 inch hole in each port right up to the plenum and then mill out whatever plenum size you need      only partially kidding too

[garyv]

Lot of good stuff here to ponder but what Dan needs is a plan.
First he needs a really good builder. If he doesn't have one there are plenty here whom have already posted to pick from.
I'm with Ross for keeping the HR stuff especially with the car he has. It's screaming for a high riser.
Nothing cooler than old school type stuff when you can make it work for want you to accomplish.
I agree there is probably an easier way to get there but High Risers, Tunnel Ports and Cammers are just cool.
Might take some work but in the end you will have something not many others have and to me that is worth a bunch.
Send your heads and intake to someone who knows what they are doing, have them CC'd, flowed and have good valve job done.
Let them fill the intake and port it to get the velocity where it needs to be then they can recommend a cam.
Get a stroker kit.
Couple of custom quick fuel carbs and hang on.
you will be north of 600HP easy and have a really cool high riser under the hood.
My 2 cents
garyv

[plovett]

Oh I agree that siting on the table it's too big, but look at the entire comment.

Fill that plenum and port floor and make it like a Chi-type intake using the top half of the intake manifold.   The head port volume is tiny compared to the intake, if you had that intake bondo'd up making a fast port right at the top of the head, it'd roll right around the short side radius without looking back

Fair enough.  It'd take an experienced porter/builder to make that work well, in my opinion.  It could be a good option though.  All this stuff is different (read "cool").  I like it.

JMO,

paulie

[cjshaker]

Lots of crazy ideas here, but if you keep the highriser stuff you're still fighting yourself. As stated by Blair, choose a workable combo and you'll get the 600 on a very streeable engine. Since you're willing to "bite the bullet", might as well do it right instead of using parts that will require major reworking just to be less than ideal.

Choose a decent modern head (several to choose from), stuff that big crank in there with nothing bigger than a MR style intake port and you'll be knocking on that 600 easily with an engine that will be much more street friendly. The HR stuff can easily be sold to recover a big chunk of cost.

And ditch the 400 rods. They were weak back in the day and even weaker now after 40+ years. Don't chance it. They were only a choice back when there were no choices.