Author Topic: Pro-Gram-Engineering main caps?  (Read 10733 times)

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fe66comet

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Pro-Gram-Engineering main caps?
« on: August 24, 2014, 04:58:02 PM »
Well since my engine has once again been reduced to a pile of parts I am considering a main cap upgrade. Are the Pro-Gram caps compatable with all blocks? And what has to be done to fit them to the block? I am guessing a line bore is in order along with drilling the pan rail of course. On one side there is already a threaded boss and flange on the inside, on the other side there is not much material there just a web and hollow. How does the cap attach to the hollowed out web portion of the block? Thanks guys.....Job

ScotiaFE

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Re: Pro-Gram-Engineering main caps?
« Reply #1 on: August 25, 2014, 07:41:38 PM »
Here are a couple of pictures of a nice job. Not mine of course.
Really unless you are really camming up and spinning into the 7's you should be fine at 500 hp or so.

http://www.network54.com/Forum/74182/thread/1388254342

fe66comet

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Re: Pro-Gram-Engineering main caps?
« Reply #2 on: August 25, 2014, 10:16:56 PM »
I saw on a vendors site the front and rear caps are offered separate than the middle caps. The front is not too bad at 125 bucks but the rear is almost more than all the others added up. I am looking to cover any future modifications and already I am shooting for 11:1 compression and 6500 max rpm. If I change the camshaft later I would be prepared for that. I would guess the caps or combination of would cover different stages of performance and after a close inspection of the main webbing it resembles a Buick 455 that I had a lot of main and block failures with back in the day. I am thinking of doing the front cap and all the centers, then leaving the rear alone. The rear appears fairly stable to me and as long as the flywheel and clutch are balanced I cannot see and major issues there.

machoneman

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Re: Pro-Gram-Engineering main caps?
« Reply #3 on: August 26, 2014, 05:03:40 AM »
My old buddy Mike has some interesting observation on studs vs. bolts if you go this way. I still have a preference btw of starting with the best block one can get, meaning spending the $ on a 390 block is much less preferable to getting a real 427 block, be it OEM or an aftermarket block. JMO! 

To main cap or not? My lesson learned about friction.
 December 30 2013, 6:13 AM 

You will know when you NEED to do something with caps or clamp load WHEN you start to transfer block material onto the cap or vise-versa.

 I did work for a street racer....yes we all know they exist. Anyway he was running a BBC 4 bolt main block using 200 HP NO2 on top of 650 HP engine. He did not have a lot of money but whatever he won he would try something else to go faster. One thing was always the same is the tune-up used.....

The blocks would get hurt very often while learning how to get on the tune-up. Melting across the deck melting one piston all else perfect you get the idea. I would take his ARP main studs out of the block and use them in the next block Now we would re-block mid-week many times. So finally I worked ahead and got a block ready to go with a new set of ARP studs so we could just swap the crank rods and add a piston of two LOL.

 Well one night of racing maybe three allout pass's time to fix it.
 Surprise I found that the caps are transferring metal WTF. Swapped studs in the next block and off it went.
 Next time it came down the caps looked better, and the next time no metal transfer at all Hmmmm.

 **** This is what I learned is that ARP uses a black type of paint to keep the studs looking great and from rusting. The problem is if you assemble used just OIL the friction is very HIGH in between the nut and stud threads causing the torque wrench to tell you you're done.

Now if you were tightening by TTY, TTA or BOLT stretch method this problem would never have happened.
This was many many years ago and now you know why they say use their ARP anti-seize and torque specs.

 **** Point being is you can wire brush the black coating off and have no problem at all.
 **** Just as reusing the studs wore the coating off more with each reuse so they clamped tighter.

 The 390 caps with ARP studs and DO NOT DETONATE THE ENGINE as that will rattle the caps making them transfer metal when you really don't have a problem if tune-up is correct.




 Mike Caruso
 Do It Like You Mean It .....or Don't Bother!
www.AERA.org
 Engine Professional Magazine Free To All
http://www.aera.org/ep/index.html

 
« Last Edit: August 26, 2014, 05:21:27 AM by machoneman »
Bob Maag

ScotiaFE

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Re: Pro-Gram-Engineering main caps?
« Reply #4 on: August 26, 2014, 06:01:15 AM »
Have you considered one of these?
Might be cost effective by the time you get all the work done to a 390 block.

http://bearblockmotors.com/bbm-cast-iron-ford-fe-engine-block/


fe66comet

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Re: Pro-Gram-Engineering main caps?
« Reply #5 on: August 26, 2014, 02:34:27 PM »
I do have ARP studs and I stripped all the coating off with EZ-OFF. Then I used loctite on the block side after cleaning the holes with pre clean and a siphon blow gun. My thoughts behind a cap upgrade is many here have said the two bolt caps have a 500 HP threshold. I already have surpassed that just with what I have going now. As far as another block goes I already have a lot invested now and starting all over again would not really make much sense. I am just looking to boost the strength and stability of the bottom end a bit. My current formula is about 650 HP and 2000 pounds, that would put me in the low 9s which is plenty for me but will require some work on the main caps. Everything additional (port work valve springs and solid roller) can be done later as needed

Rory428

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Re: Pro-Gram-Engineering main caps?
« Reply #6 on: August 26, 2014, 09:38:09 PM »
2000 pounds? What are you building, a Super Gas type roadster, or maybe a dragster?
1978 Fairmont,FE 427 with 428 crank, 4 speed Jerico best of 9.972@132.54MPH 1.29 60 foot
1985 Mustang HB 331 SB Ford, 4 speed Jerico, best of 10.29@128 MPH 1.40 60 foot.
1974 F350 race car hauler 390 NP435 4 speed
1959 Ford Meteor 2 dr sedan. 428 Cobra Jet, 4 speed Toploader. 12.54@ 108 MPH

fe66comet

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Re: Pro-Gram-Engineering main caps?
« Reply #7 on: August 26, 2014, 10:55:59 PM »
I am building a 1995 ranger with a Mustang II front end. Other lightweight goodies will be carbon fiber hood and body panels, aluminum floors in the cab and bed with carbon fiber bed sides. Ford lightweight stock rear end with a Detroit locker, forged axles and Chromalloy four link with aluminum coil overs. In front an aluminum firewall with aluminum fender supports and core support. Aftermarket lightweight windows, Kirkey drag seats, an aluminum drag steering column and Chromalloy roll cage. I have the fuel cell almost finished I got a small 16 gallon to keep it light. I wiil get a lightweight battery and 15Lb flywheel also. Besides that a aluminum driveshaft and stainless steel exhaust to further loose some weight. Ala carte no extra's.

fe66comet

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Re: Pro-Gram-Engineering main caps?
« Reply #8 on: August 27, 2014, 01:04:37 AM »
I cannot find info or pics of the front or rear caps? I would be interested to see how they hook up to the block.

machoneman

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Re: Pro-Gram-Engineering main caps?
« Reply #9 on: August 27, 2014, 05:57:36 AM »
I am building a 1995 ranger with a Mustang II front end. Other lightweight goodies will be carbon fiber hood and body panels, aluminum floors in the cab and bed with carbon fiber bed sides. Ford lightweight stock rear end with a Detroit locker, forged axles and Chromalloy four link with aluminum coil overs. In front an aluminum firewall with aluminum fender supports and core support. Aftermarket lightweight windows, Kirkey drag seats, an aluminum drag steering column and Chromalloy roll cage. I have the fuel cell almost finished I got a small 16 gallon to keep it light. I wiil get a lightweight battery and 15Lb flywheel also. Besides that a aluminum driveshaft and stainless steel exhaust to further loose some weight. Ala carte no extra's.

Jet-Hot or similar coated steel headers with a coated steel exhaust system would be a lot lighter but perhaps you've considered this. 
« Last Edit: August 27, 2014, 06:12:31 AM by machoneman »
Bob Maag

fe66comet

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Re: Pro-Gram-Engineering main caps?
« Reply #10 on: August 27, 2014, 09:31:23 AM »
The headers I am going steel with ceramic coat, the rest is much lighter per foot. I threw a few samples I had laying around and stainless steel in the right gauge is the ticket. You can go thinner with stainless and not have it crush or crack as easy. I have some Dynomax dual drag pipes into steel drag chambered mufflers and some turn downs. All is for an A Body 3" and 1 pipe weighs more than a whole stainless system in 3" including converter and manifold for a Jeep Wrangler

machoneman

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Re: Pro-Gram-Engineering main caps?
« Reply #11 on: August 27, 2014, 09:51:21 AM »
Cool! Yes a max weight reduction program dose pay benefits. 
Bob Maag

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Re: Pro-Gram-Engineering main caps?
« Reply #12 on: August 27, 2014, 12:05:19 PM »
FWIW, my '72 Pinto with 2X3 frame and full 1 3/4" cage weighed 2260. I'd built a 466 SCJ for a local circle track effort and used it. Rules required that it be all iron. I used a C6 and a Versailles 9" with a 4-link. Both the doors, the front clip and the rear quarters were fibreglas. 1140 pounds were on the rear tires---345-35 Pirelli P-2s on 12" Weld wheels. The top was chopped by 4". Two seats only, setting on the back-seat foot space. 10 gallon cell in an aluminum can. The door shells weighed just better than 4 pounds apiece.

KS

fe66comet

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Re: Pro-Gram-Engineering main caps?
« Reply #13 on: August 27, 2014, 03:57:10 PM »
That is where the carbon fiber comes in. You cut the largest areas of the panels out and install a .032 panel in its place. The paint ends up being more than the panel itself. By modern standards fiberglass is heavy. I plan on skinning most of the body along with single stage paint, no clear coat to add another 20-40 lbs. Man I am giving away too much LOL.


BTW .233 a square foot.
« Last Edit: August 27, 2014, 04:37:51 PM by fe66comet »

ScotiaFE

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Re: Pro-Gram-Engineering main caps?
« Reply #14 on: August 27, 2014, 06:05:54 PM »
Further to your compression ratio post.
I still say if that piston is above the deck someone has made a mistake.
Either the piston/rod/crank combo is out of whack or
the deck was machined to far.
Just saying. You probably need another block.