Genesis block

[jayb]

For what it's worth, the reason that Robert Pond is manufacturing blocks is that he had trouble with the caps letting go on the Genesis blocks he tried.  He'd run them on the dyno to test them with one of his 600 HP stock eliminator builds, and when he tore them down invariably he would find at least one broken main cap.  He tried to get Genesis to change to a steel cap, but as Dave said they wouldn't do it.  So, Robert decided to make his own blocks, rather than work with the Genesis blocks.  Robert told me this directly several years ago.

I think this was a problem early on with the Genesis stuff, and not more recently.  I haven't heard of this issue with anybody's Genesis blocks for quite some time, since they switched to the nodular caps.  But buyer beware of any Genesis block that is an early one with the normal cast caps...

[DaveShoe]

Robert is one of the folk I'd discussed this issue with.  He wasn't the only one.

Shoe.

[ScotiaFE]

I remember this talk of the early cap issue.
I have possibly one of the lastest blocks. I just got it this year from Barry.
I know that it is the best block I have in my inventory and I don't have the
money to buy a Pond.
When I get it up and running I plan to take it to close to 800 HP on the bottle.
If I blow it up. C'est la vie.

[Glenn N]

Yikes. I have what I think is a 1st gen block. Bought in late 06 and delivered in early 07 from Keith Craft. I have not heard about the cracking manicap issue but just about everything else far as I know. The caps sure look like the ones Dave posted in his picture. When I was block shopping I wanted a iron Pond block but only the Genesis was available in iron at the time. Couldn't swing the aluminum. My build is pretty mild somewhere in the 500-550hp range. What would you guys suggest I do? Look into the newer caps?  It's still a bare block and I'm collecting parts for everything as well. More time than money at the moment. Hmmm.

BTW Dave nice to see you here.

[ScotiaFE]

Any chance we can see a picture of the caps you have.
I will be in town tomorrow for Remembrance Day Service and will take a few pics
of the caps on my block.
Now I'm curious.

[Glenn N]

I'll un wrap it and take some tomorrow or Sat and post them. I lost all the pics i had on my old computer.

[Glenn N]

Hopefully a pic of mine.

[DaveShoe]

The other early Genesis iron I recall cracked a cap while torquing it into place at a customer's shop.    I seem to recall there were more than two purchases involving cracked caps, but it's been a while and I don't remember right now.  Once the Genesis blocks are built, they have a reputation for reliability unless professionally punished.

Keep in mind that a Robert Pond dyno run is as brutal a testing regime as any racing FE engine goes through.  His runs last a long time.  His dyno runs often deform factory crossbolted nodular caps to the point the legs bend and they "fret" in the block registers.  That he can bust gray iron Genesis caps is not much different than the fact that he destroys Ford factory crossbolted nodular caps with regularity (he can accurately predict how long factory crossbolted caps will last in his tests), reference (one link includes photos):
http://www.network54.com/Forum/74182/message/1103140420
http://www.network54.com/Forum/74182/message/1103386459

I've also attached a photo of an early Genesis iron block (late prototype era) with gray iron caps to this post (see below), as a visual reference.  In a post above, I attached a photo of the crate of early gray iron caps.  Note that Genesis used a very high grade "diesel engine" gray iron ingot in their blocks and caps, with a nickel addition.  Prototype blocks got 2% nickel but were a pain to machine and build, so later blocks got the same diesel iron ingots with a bit less nickel to make them builder-friendly.  I expect the Genesis gray iron caps retained the 2% alloy, since only one protptype-era batch of the gray iron caps was cast, at least that I'm aware of.  Again, modern Genesis iron caps are apparently nodular, and look different.

Shoe.

[Glenn N]

Please excuse the feet in this one.  

[ToddK]

I just got home from work and checked my block - apparently it is a later production block with the bigger nodular iron main caps. Phew!

[Glenn N]

Dave thank you for the pictures and great info! Really interesting to know. Clearly shows I have the early type of caps. For my needs I hope it will be fine but it's good to be aware of the possible failure issues. Sounds like Robert really puts them through the paces. Keith did a fine job on machine work and block detail. Nicely cut relief in the deck for the oil hole match. And #1 cam bearing notch for distributor gear. He normally gives them a good checkover. But good to know everything that can happen. One thing on the newer caps boy they sure are beefy!! Clearly a better product. I wish they did a better thrust bearing maincap chaumfer on these blocks though. I see that hasn't changed on the new style caps either. Or maybe they decided to leave that detail to the builders? Either way a nicely done product overall.

Todd great picture thanks! Nice block.

[DaveShoe]

Keep in mind that Barry mentioned (in a post above) that a Genesis nodular cap cracked at the slidehammer hole in the middle of the cap (gray iron caps didn't have the hole drilled, best I know).  I'd not heard of that happening before, and it deserves elaboration.  I am also unaware of the location of any of the cracks in the Genesis gray iron caps, I've only studied a factory Ford crossbolted cap failure, and it occured along the length of the main bolt and seem to originate at the block register surface due to side-loading of the cap by the crank and then propogated up to the bolt head surface and did not damage the factory 427 engine.  The Genesis gray cap failures may take entirely different forms than factory crossbolted cap failures.  It is good to know that, so far, Genesis cap failures have not resulted in additional engine damage.

Shoe.

[ScotiaFE]

My block was drop shipped to me through Barry this year.
It will of course need a full mock-up and inspection and most likely a bit of touch up.
I would say I'm more than happy with the size of my caps.
Can't say the same about my wallet though. LOL
Whether they are Nodular or Gray cast I can't say.

[Glenn N]

Something else to remember on the oil slots on the deck is the TP heads I'm using (stock iron 71 service castings) are not slotted like most other FE heads are. I have seen some tunnelport heads with the oil slot and some without. Just the oil feed hole itself. So that's why I had the block slotted. I have also seen both types of oil feeds on the Medium riser heads as well. I had thought it was DIF cast heads vs later CF castings but think I have seen both early and later heads both ways. Not positive on that.

Dave yes there's a good list of things to be aware of for sure. As these blocks get used and age it's a pretty good test. And they do seem to correct things in time. Which is good. I like them too it's a very nice block.

Todd or Howie could one of you please post a pic of inside the screw in freeze plug area inside the block? I have never seen the siamese cyl walls inside. And my block came with the plugs installed and sealed. No joy here. Thanks.

[ToddK]

No problems, as my block came without the screw in plugs. Hope this pic is clear enough.