pro maxx head options

[frnkeore]

BTW, these are the heads I have and were referring to.

They copied Ford. Should Ford sue Edelbrock?

[blykins]

There is no Carrillo rod that looks like a Molnar, sorry.  None of them have the skinny beams that Molnar has, nor do any of them have the lightweight that a Molnar rod has.   If Molnar copied anyone, they copied K1, but that's because Tom Molnar worked for K1...

When there are options, I will always push US made stuff first.   Sometimes there are no options.  If it weren't for Scat, 99.999% of the 445 and 462 guys out there wouldn't have 445's or 462's.  If everyone had to buy $1600-$2000 Carrillo/Oliver rods to make 445's/462's/482's, then practically no one would be making a 445/462/482.  I can name many more examples.   

Frank, you are the first one to point a finger at us when we use Molnar rods, but you're also the first one to promote BBM.  Doesn't make a lick of sense to me.  Talk out of one side of your face please.

[frnkeore]

One more thing..... I'm not trying to put Molnar out of business. They seem to make a good product, as Pro Maxx does. But, since you buy a lot of their rods, you could put pressure on them to have their forgings made in the good old USA when your ordering them.

They will continue making them in China, as long as you continue buying them!

[blykins]

Maybe you should push Doug Park and Blair to have BBM stuff made in the US?

[frnkeore]

Brent, it guy's like you that keep China in business and then put them down when it suits you!!!

BBM is NOT made in China.

[blykins]

Brent, it guy's like you that keep China in business and then put them down when it suits you!!!

BBM is NOT made in China.

You better look and see who else is using Molnar rods, Scat cranks, etc., before you lump me in with "guys like you".   Never have seen you tell Blair that it's guys like him keeping China in business.  Blair also promotes and uses a lot of Molnar rods, Scat cranks, etc.  No, BBM is not made in China, but you like to come across like you're so US-centric, then push parts made in Korea. 

As I mentioned up above, when there are US-based parts that are available, I try to give them the nod.  Edelbrock, TFS, Pond, FE Power, etc.  Unfortunately, there are no US-based manufacturer that is making FE cranks and rods that most guys can afford.   If guys had to pay $5000 for a Bryant crank and $1600 for Oliver rods when they wanted to build a 445, a lot of FE engine building would fall by the way side.

Ross is too calm and patient when it comes to guys like you, but I have no trouble holding you accountable for the garbage you type on the forums. 

[frnkeore]

The truth shall set you free!

[blykins]

The truth shall set you free!

Whatever that means LOL

[My427stang]

Brent is right, I may be too calm and patient, but honestly it's based on my experiences and not just engines. No need to let it make you crazy Frank, crazy drives mistakes.  You do not have to agree, and I do not expect an admission from either side, ever, that the other is right or wrong.

Good point on Molnar and SCAT in terms of flow of money.  I can't really argue if the parts are a complete copy, but like Brent, my Carillos in my Cobra did not at all look like a SCAT or Molnar or K1.  Additionally, SCAT parts in general do not seem to be a copy of any stateside piece that I know of, so YES, money going overseas is sure not where I like to be, but those parts are less of an intellectual property issue.  In fact, maybe my AFR was a bad example in hindsight, especially if AFR comissioned them to do it.  My issue has been has always been with the blatant copy of heads and intakes re-released into our market.

Unfortunately, there are not as many good opportunities between rods and cranks as there are heads, so when money is flowing AND it's a copy as well for heads and intakes, I get a bit more reluctant.  Shame on me for adjusting the rules to my argument, but I am not dying on the sword for anti-Chinese as much as saying, when you have an option, avoid the Chinese copy.

I do not know a crank or rod supplier than an average Joe can budget for right now.  I'd like to see a SCAT priced US only capscrew I-beam for 6.488 rods, same with all cast and forged cranks, with light and affordable options for the strokers.  I'll continue to chase options for those, but at this point no leads.

I meant it, at some point a good, repeat customer will show up at my shop with a set, I don't have an answer, but hope they don't.

[frnkeore]

Ross, you should run for political office

So it's about intellectual property? The intellectual property is the manufacturers design. Minor changes don't negate that. All head designs can be said are minor changes to Ford's design. Many company's have produced Ford based product as designed by Ford or with modifications. From the flat heads on. That is what "Hot Rodding" is and was, all about.

Carrillo came out first, with the H beam rod, before either you or Brent were born, the very minor changes that others made to it, doesn't change that. I'm sure Carrillo didn't invent the H beam but, they are responsible for it's use today and deserve their place in racing history.

[My427stang]

Frank,

No politician, but certainly not the normal guy you'd run into on the street. 

In manufacturing, “intellectual property” refers to all proprietary technical information, inventions, processes, designs, and know‑how used in the production of goods, protected by legal rights such as patents, trademarks, copyrights, and trade secrets.   

I am not arguing about Carillo and won't let you pull me in a rabbit hole with your example, which if even true, is a completely different scenario.  Stevens did a direct copy of a US made head, so I won't buy it.  The things I do buy are not direct copies. You buy it if you want it, but I really don't think you want those heads either, I think you like to fight me and Brent.

[blykins]

I think you like to fight me and Brent.

The truth shall set you free!

[frnkeore]

I am just noting the hypocrisy of putting down Chinese made goods, made in China and finished in the US, no different than the Molnar finished Chinese rods on a Carrillo design and the Pro Maxx heads of the same type thing.

Of course you don't sell Pro Maxx

[blykins]

I am just noting the hypocrisy of putting down Chinese made goods, made in China and finished in the US, no different than the Molnar finished Chinese rods on a Carrillo design and the Pro Maxx heads of the same type thing.

Of course you don't sell Pro Maxx

I could.  Many years ago, they sent me a set of FE heads and a set of SBF heads to check out.  I looked at them, sent them back, and politely declined.

You just don't get it, Frank, because you don't want to get it. 

Ross' scruple is that he doesn't want to support businesses who stole the exact design of another company, i.e. Pro Maxx, SpeedMaster, ProComp, etc.  I'm with him.

My scruple is that I'd rather use US made products *when given the choice*.  Sometimes there is no choice.  In the situation of cylinder heads, there are lots of other choices. 

Oh, by the way, you obviously have no idea what a Carrillo rod looks like.  I bet I could post pictures of a Carrillo, Callies, Scat, and Dyers rod next to a Molnar rod, and the only rod that would stand out as a completely different design would be the Molnar. 

Next.

[My427stang]

I am just noting the hypocrisy of putting down Chinese made goods, made in China and finished in the US, no different than the Molnar finished Chinese rods on a Carrillo design and the Pro Maxx heads of the same type thing.

Of course you don't sell Pro Maxx

Frank, if that applies to me, that is your interpretation without reading the posts carefully and it's dead wrong. 

- As Brent said, my primary concern is buying copied parts of US made stuff in production.  It has been over 20 years in production for Edelbrock RPM stuff, so likely not a crime, but shady.
- I prefer to buy US when I can, by a longshot.  If it doesn't meet the price requirement set by the customer's budget, then I have to permanently or temporarily find a solution.  I will say that I will discount or provide a credit to do the right thing if things are close.
- If you are trying to infer that it's a profit thing because I do or do not sell Promaxx, it's silly,  Promaxx has a decent markup and readily available to me.  Happy to drop ship you a set.