Author Topic: Those "new" summit fe HYD roller cams.  (Read 3808 times)

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DuckRyder

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Re: Those "new" summit fe HYD roller cams.
« Reply #15 on: July 13, 2026, 12:18:11 PM »
So in the interest of science i was trying to follow ups on this with Summit.

So afar all i have gotten is that the lobes are "very asymmetric" which explains the discrepancies in the specs and camshaft calculators.

I could not get an answer on why mygassers cam card doesn't match the one on summit's website for his cam.

I also could not get any verification that the others are correct and the cam you actually get would match what you ordered.

If anyone would like to take up the investigation be my guest.

Robert

67xr7cat

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Re: Those "new" summit fe HYD roller cams.
« Reply #16 on: July 25, 2026, 03:31:45 AM »
   
. . . . . . asking for an explanation of the anomalies including My Gassers cam card not matching the one for the same cam on SummitRacing.com.
 

    I'm not looking at the specific instance at hand, but having a camshaft "as measured" not matching the sales literature wouldn't be anything new!  Now, hopefully somewhat close would be nice, but some deviation often is exhibited because that lobe was originally profiled for a different engine make, most often of a different lifter face (flat-tappet) or roller-wheel presentation which has an effect.   ;)

    If measuring at the valve, then there are many other possible aspects that may be unique to different engine valvetrain iterations which may influence the outcome also.   :-\

    Scott.

Well anything new cam wise or for that matter available and in stock for the FE these days is noteworthy even if its not so good (and in this specific case I don't know if it is good or bad). I've noticed the options on cams and related parts has been consolidated down quite a bit especially on the street, street/strip stuff.  This seems to be a big trend especially with Comp cams (as well as keep raising their prices). They have either discontinued or made "Currently not available" a lot of springs, in particular stuff that is designed for FT cams.

I'd say the market is moving away from FT cams in favor of roller cams and in general trying to reduce the number of different parts like springs and associated hardware. I can see in the case of those Summit cams if they all have the same lift provided you don't end up with a hard to control lift profile because it really needs more lift then you can probably figure out a way to have one valve spring package that works for all. 


My427stang

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Re: Those "new" summit fe HYD roller cams.
« Reply #17 on: July 25, 2026, 11:31:37 AM »
I reached out through for fun to see if we could modify LSA...no option. 

Most will be a little rowdy for the power brake guys.
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Ross
Bullock's Power Service, LLC
- 70 Fastback Mustang, 489 cid FE, Victor, SEFI, Erson SFT cam, TKO-600 5 speed, 4.11 9 inch.
- 71 F100 shortbed 4x4, 461 cid FE, headers, Victor Pro-flo EFI, Comp Custom HFT cam, 3.50 9 inch

DuckRyder

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Re: Those "new" summit fe HYD roller cams.
« Reply #18 on: July 25, 2026, 12:29:15 PM »
67 - Agree always interested in new products for old pushrod junk...

Ross - I guess thats what sells every thing is on 110ish or tighter and talks about idle... there's a couple of these that could have been nice if a bit wider for less overlap - and assuming the numbers could be trusted.

Seems like Howards offers various LSA in the same cam but still on the 8 ish split program...

I'm sorta surprised we aren't seeing more of them in the wild but i guess the FE Forums aren't the market.
Robert

My427stang

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Re: Those "new" summit fe HYD roller cams.
« Reply #19 on: July 25, 2026, 01:43:25 PM »
67 - Agree always interested in new products for old pushrod junk...

Ross - I guess thats what sells every thing is on 110ish or tighter and talks about idle... there's a couple of these that could have been nice if a bit wider for less overlap - and assuming the numbers could be trusted.

Seems like Howards offers various LSA in the same cam but still on the 8 ish split program...

I'm sorta surprised we aren't seeing more of them in the wild but i guess the FE Forums aren't the market.

Howards are so lobe limited though and for some reaosn tend to be very low lift.  I know it can be a smidge more expensive, but not much, but the only way around is custom.  Bullet and Comp have a good lobe selection, good prices and quick turn, most everyone else, not so much.
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Ross
Bullock's Power Service, LLC
- 70 Fastback Mustang, 489 cid FE, Victor, SEFI, Erson SFT cam, TKO-600 5 speed, 4.11 9 inch.
- 71 F100 shortbed 4x4, 461 cid FE, headers, Victor Pro-flo EFI, Comp Custom HFT cam, 3.50 9 inch

67xr7cat

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Re: Those "new" summit fe HYD roller cams.
« Reply #20 on: July 25, 2026, 02:18:33 PM »
Well went and looked on the Summit page.  Why the .582 lift across the board. It says so right in the ad and is about what I suspected which is spring selection

"Lift is set for compatibility with most aftermarket heads or modified factory heads."
"Most have additional lift so modern beehive or small diameter dual springs"
"specifically designed for stability at high-RPM with modern Beehive and lightweight small-diameter dual-springs"

As for LSA they are not all on 110. Depending on the cam it varies from 108.5 to 111.5 and some between 4-5 degrees advance cut in.  Whether you can run a vacuum boost depends on not just LSA. You need to look at the actual valve events and other things effect it too like how open the throttle blades are. Usually I just add in using a vacuum reserve tank or vacuum pump and be done with the issue.

Another interesting quote:
"Lobe intensity is aggressive without being hard on the valvetrain, which is specifically designed for stability at high-RPM with modern Beehive and lightweight small-diameter dual-springs"

I think the best one is this:
"It's highly recommended the car be run down the strip before making any changes to the cam advance"

I will say at the price they are selling them it is cheap and you would have to try it and then you will know. Just keep in mind an off the shelf cam rarely is gong to be a perfect match for an application as it has to cover varied configurations. That said for many who have a budget they work "well enough".  Just like Joe Sherman used to say the intake manifold is there to hold up the carb, can say the cam is there to move the valves.  I've seem enough engines over the years with off the shelf and custom cams and it's a crap shoot. A custom cam is about the only way to go if your are racing to win, but street or street/strip depends on what is important to you.  In my experience having a combination where all the pieces work together is more important. No custom cam can fix a screwed up combination (maybe can try to crutch it up, but won't fix it). 




blykins

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Re: Those "new" summit fe HYD roller cams.
« Reply #21 on: July 25, 2026, 06:24:36 PM »
Another interesting quote:
"Lobe intensity is aggressive without being hard on the valvetrain, which is specifically designed for stability at high-RPM with modern Beehive and lightweight small-diameter dual-springs"

Good buddy of mine with a Cam Doctor put one of the Summit cams on it.  He said the intake side of the ramp is soft while it slams the valve down hard on the other side. 

Some guy is gonna put one of these in a factory headed/valved FE and tear some stuff up.
Brent Lykins
Lykins Motorsports
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DuckRyder

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Re: Those "new" summit fe HYD roller cams.
« Reply #22 on: July 25, 2026, 06:39:30 PM »
I was speaking generally about shelf cams seeming to tend toward "idle sound" seems to be less of a market for one that sounds close to stock. We got "rattler" and "thumper" i propose a new line "sleeper" ...  8)

Robert

67xr7cat

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Re: Those "new" summit fe HYD roller cams.
« Reply #23 on: July 25, 2026, 07:15:18 PM »
Another interesting quote:
"Lobe intensity is aggressive without being hard on the valvetrain, which is specifically designed for stability at high-RPM with modern Beehive and lightweight small-diameter dual-springs"

Good buddy of mine with a Cam Doctor put one of the Summit cams on it.  He said the intake side of the ramp is soft while it slams the valve down hard on the other side. 

Some guy is gonna put one of these in a factory headed/valved FE and tear some stuff up.

Not surprising.  Guess they figure can get away with it using light weight valve springs and a high seat pressure.  Seem to recall was a famous cam designer who used to slam the valve down too.  Don't see it as a good way with that foot long valve stem on the FE.  All I can say is it has cheap and available going for it. One thing I know for certain is I'm not going to be the guinea pig lol

67xr7cat

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Re: Those "new" summit fe HYD roller cams.
« Reply #24 on: July 25, 2026, 07:30:26 PM »
I was speaking generally about shelf cams seeming to tend toward "idle sound" seems to be less of a market for one that sounds close to stock. We got "rattler" and "thumper" i propose a new line "sleeper" ...  8)

Doesn't "high performance" dictate a lumpy idle?

If we go back aways Isky ground everything on a 108 LSA and kept the intake and exhaust duration the same.  Said it gave the best performance.  Factory stuff like the 427 SFT cams had a bunch of duration and a 114 or 119 LSA.  Now take the CJ.  cam.  That lobe was used on the 351C CJ, 390GT,428CJ,429CJ and a few others.  Amazing how an OEM decided those lobes would work in all those different engines.

As I said you really have to look at value event and really really best is if you can look at the lift profile.  You can have two cams with the same LSA and duration, but be a lot different.   

DuckRyder

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Re: Those "new" summit fe HYD roller cams.
« Reply #25 on: July 25, 2026, 08:30:22 PM »
I was speaking generally about shelf cams seeming to tend toward "idle sound" seems to be less of a market for one that sounds close to stock. We got "rattler" and "thumper" i propose a new line "sleeper" ...  8)


As I said you really have to look at value event and really really best is if you can look at the lift profile.  You can have two cams with the same LSA and duration, but be a lot different.

Of course.
Robert

My427stang

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Re: Those "new" summit fe HYD roller cams.
« Reply #26 on: July 25, 2026, 09:58:03 PM »
Whether you can run a vacuum boost depends on not just LSA. You need to look at the actual valve events and other things effect it too like how open the throttle blades are. Usually I just add in using a vacuum reserve tank or vacuum pump and be done with the issue.


Nothing wrong in anything you said, but some changes in LSA would make many of those much more universal than they are now and not requiring a band aid of vacuum pump or can, and that is looking at all the events, not just LSA.  Nothing magic there in any of the specs, but my guess is their target market doesn't know or care, just wants 100 bucks cheaper.

I would have to guess my question never got to Nutter, though, may try again for fun.  I find it pretty hard to believe that unless Summit isn't stocking cores with enough spread, that it wouldn't be just a programming change, but such is life.  I spec all my custom cams through Comp and Bullet, figured I'd do a test on a TFS 505 if they could accommodate the change, but no loss here

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Ross
Bullock's Power Service, LLC
- 70 Fastback Mustang, 489 cid FE, Victor, SEFI, Erson SFT cam, TKO-600 5 speed, 4.11 9 inch.
- 71 F100 shortbed 4x4, 461 cid FE, headers, Victor Pro-flo EFI, Comp Custom HFT cam, 3.50 9 inch

67xr7cat

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Re: Those "new" summit fe HYD roller cams.
« Reply #27 on: Today at 12:29:03 AM »
Whether you can run a vacuum boost depends on not just LSA. You need to look at the actual valve events and other things effect it too like how open the throttle blades are. Usually I just add in using a vacuum reserve tank or vacuum pump and be done with the issue.


Nothing wrong in anything you said, but some changes in LSA would make many of those much more universal than they are now and not requiring a band aid of vacuum pump or can, and that is looking at all the events, not just LSA.  Nothing magic there in any of the specs, but my guess is their target market doesn't know or care, just wants 100 bucks cheaper.

I would have to guess my question never got to Nutter, though, may try again for fun.  I find it pretty hard to believe that unless Summit isn't stocking cores with enough spread, that it wouldn't be just a programming change, but such is life.  I spec all my custom cams through Comp and Bullet, figured I'd do a test on a TFS 505 if they could accommodate the change, but no loss here

I don't this those running summit are car guys, more likely money guys.

Btw what LSA were you looking for? Most of those cams are on a 111 and one is on a 111.5 Really looking at them some are not that bad as far as overlap is concerned. A lot of I/E split on some too. Be interesting to see how they actually run, but as I said I'm not that interested.

As for vacuum pump being a band aid look at many modern cars and they use one, usually run off the cam. This is because they don't make enough vacuum. Keep in mind most vacuum boosters are designed to have at least 18" of vacuum. Yes you can get by with less, but I've found cars with 12"-14" vacuum can result in variation of boost. At least is something I've observed, but of course I tend to be sensitive to these types of things. Now a days I won't even do a vacuum booster when I can grab an electric booster from a Tesla and mod it to fit.  Add an electric assist steering column from a Kia soul and no more power steering pump, hoses, and hydraulics to deal with, but I'm getting off topic here.

blykins

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Re: Those "new" summit fe HYD roller cams.
« Reply #28 on: Today at 05:40:25 AM »
I was speaking generally about shelf cams seeming to tend toward "idle sound" seems to be less of a market for one that sounds close to stock. We got "rattler" and "thumper" i propose a new line "sleeper" ...  8)

Doesn't "high performance" dictate a lumpy idle?

If we go back aways Isky ground everything on a 108 LSA and kept the intake and exhaust duration the same.  Said it gave the best performance.  Factory stuff like the 427 SFT cams had a bunch of duration and a 114 or 119 LSA.  Now take the CJ.  cam.  That lobe was used on the 351C CJ, 390GT,428CJ,429CJ and a few others.  Amazing how an OEM decided those lobes would work in all those different engines.

As I said you really have to look at value event and really really best is if you can look at the lift profile.  You can have two cams with the same LSA and duration, but be a lot different.

I would say that high performance doesn't always dictate a nasty idle sound.  You can have an absolute mild cam with a really good cylinder head and still make a lot of power. 

It's not just the OEM that makes universal cams, all the cam companies have been doing that for decades.   The same cam that's available for an FE is also available for a SBM or a Buick.  I'm just thankful that we've made leaps and bounds in technology since the 60's.  Unfortunately, a lot of guys still think a single pattern on a 108 is the ticket.  Actually, most people focus way too much on the LSA period.  It's like it's some magical number or something.

I had a guy email for a custom cam and said, "I don't care how you grind it, as long as it's on a 104 LSA". 

Show me that you don't know anything without telling me that you don't know anything.
Brent Lykins
Lykins Motorsports
Custom FE Street, Drag Race, Road Race, and Pulling Truck Engines
Custom Roller & Flat Tappet Camshafts
www.lykinsmotorsports.com
brent@lykinsmotorsports.com
www.customfordcams.com
502-759-1431
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My427stang

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Re: Those "new" summit fe HYD roller cams.
« Reply #29 on: Today at 07:54:41 AM »
Whether you can run a vacuum boost depends on not just LSA. You need to look at the actual valve events and other things effect it too like how open the throttle blades are. Usually I just add in using a vacuum reserve tank or vacuum pump and be done with the issue.


Nothing wrong in anything you said, but some changes in LSA would make many of those much more universal than they are now and not requiring a band aid of vacuum pump or can, and that is looking at all the events, not just LSA.  Nothing magic there in any of the specs, but my guess is their target market doesn't know or care, just wants 100 bucks cheaper.

I would have to guess my question never got to Nutter, though, may try again for fun.  I find it pretty hard to believe that unless Summit isn't stocking cores with enough spread, that it wouldn't be just a programming change, but such is life.  I spec all my custom cams through Comp and Bullet, figured I'd do a test on a TFS 505 if they could accommodate the change, but no loss here

I don't this those running summit are car guys, more likely money guys.

Btw what LSA were you looking for? Most of those cams are on a 111 and one is on a 111.5 Really looking at them some are not that bad as far as overlap is concerned. A lot of I/E split on some too. Be interesting to see how they actually run, but as I said I'm not that interested.

As for vacuum pump being a band aid look at many modern cars and they use one, usually run off the cam. This is because they don't make enough vacuum. Keep in mind most vacuum boosters are designed to have at least 18" of vacuum. Yes you can get by with less, but I've found cars with 12"-14" vacuum can result in variation of boost. At least is something I've observed, but of course I tend to be sensitive to these types of things. Now a days I won't even do a vacuum booster when I can grab an electric booster from a Tesla and mod it to fit.  Add an electric assist steering column from a Kia soul and no more power steering pump, hoses, and hydraulics to deal with, but I'm getting off topic here.

I change LSA based on overlap after lobe choices and what I need for customer and engine intent, not quite that simple, but easiest way to quickly explain it.  It can range from 108 to 115 on most builds.  However, on this one I wanted to see Summit's big cam spread to 114 or 115.  Can't really say "can you revise your entire cam for me" but I did expect maybe an option to spread centers on a special order.

As far as being money guys, some of the best parts are coming from this company, glad to see them make a little.  Trick Flow heads are owned by Summit Racing and their quality is fantastic and availability is good, although I sure wish they'd come back with their single 4 intake. As I said, I suspect either my question didn't get to where it needed to be or it's a stocking core problem, as you spread centers, the company has to stock semi-finiahed cores to meet that need, so maybe they don't see a need for the flexibility.

I am not against a can or electric pump if a customer wants it, but also have many on the street that are on resto cars that do not want any modern externals, and we can easily make 550 HP at well under 6000 and give them good vacuum by controlling overlap.  When you do that, it makes for a very happy street car, and if the head supports it, can make some big power. 
---------------------------------
Ross
Bullock's Power Service, LLC
- 70 Fastback Mustang, 489 cid FE, Victor, SEFI, Erson SFT cam, TKO-600 5 speed, 4.11 9 inch.
- 71 F100 shortbed 4x4, 461 cid FE, headers, Victor Pro-flo EFI, Comp Custom HFT cam, 3.50 9 inch