Author Topic: top speed estimate  (Read 2691 times)

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fryedaddy

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top speed estimate
« on: October 29, 2023, 04:13:06 PM »
does anyone have any idea of how fast you can take a stock suspension 66 fairlane-comet  wot top end?
1966 comet caliente 428 4 speed owned since 1983                                                 1973 f250 ranger xlt 360 4 speed papaw bought new

GerryP

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Re: top speed estimate
« Reply #1 on: October 29, 2023, 04:29:21 PM »
Aero will be the biggest issue.  I don't know at what speed for 2nd gen Fairlane but cars with a flat trunk tend to get very light in the ass end around 130 or so.  It gets pretty scary.  Suspension is fine for just going straight.  But without tires for the higher speed, it all blows up in your face.  So tires and aero are your primary concerns.

fryedaddy

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Re: top speed estimate
« Reply #2 on: October 29, 2023, 05:18:59 PM »
i meant to word it,with the proper tires,good suspension,66 comet
1966 comet caliente 428 4 speed owned since 1983                                                 1973 f250 ranger xlt 360 4 speed papaw bought new

Joe-JDC

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Re: top speed estimate
« Reply #3 on: October 29, 2023, 09:08:49 PM »
I think you will find the front of the hood will start to lift upward at anything over 130mph, and the front end will float more than the rear above that speed.  My Cobra hood would bend up about 4" all the way back to the hood pins at 145mph, and would settle back down as the speed dropped below 125mph or so.  The first time it happened, I panicked because I thought the hood was ruined.  I added pins to my '66 mustang to keep the hood on, and also kept the pins on my Mach I race car.   Lots of guys run over 140-150ish with their drag cars, but those hoods are pinned or dzus locked on.   Joe-JDC
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MeanGene

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Re: top speed estimate
« Reply #4 on: October 29, 2023, 10:11:32 PM »
Around 1975, I was running around in my 69 Mach1 with a roller cam and headers etc on the 351 with 4.86 gears, aggravating the Camaro boys as much as possible. I pulled the 3rd member, as Cantrell had found me a set of 31 spline axles and was getting that together, so I put the stock 3.00 pumpkin back in. There's a long, straight stretch on Silverado Trail a few miles north of town, so one night with no cars around I let it eat- tached to 5700, a little over 140, and the top of the driver's window popped out, then the vacuum pulled the headliner down and snapped a couple bows, so the headliner came down on my head. Scared the dogshit out of me lol...

Stangman

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Re: top speed estimate
« Reply #5 on: October 29, 2023, 10:43:56 PM »
Around 1982 when I first got my car  427 with c-6 with 3.00 gears in the rear we have a long stretch near the beach which is miles long. My buddy who had a rocked 280 z with a big turbo and 3.23 if I remember correctly. He had an aftermarket 150 mph speedo because he used to pin the old one. We were on that road right next to each other and he was at top speed 145 and I was still able to move away from him. I would like to think I hit 155-160. He stayed in it but his headlights were a good 25 cars behind me in short order. Now looking back a this not to bright but I did this often. This was the only time that fast because I remember how hard it was to steer it felt like the front was very light and the car was vibrating. But I did spend a lot of time at 125-130. One time I was driving with a buddy at 125 and I thought I saw sprinkles on the windshield so I asked him is it raining and he said no keep going with a giant smile on his face. Well I slowed down and my radiator mount broke and the engine fan went through the radiator. We are lucky we didn’t loose control. That was the last time I really did those long high speed runs and just stuck to 1/4 mile stuff. I really didn’t know a lot about cars back then and didn’t know that these old cars weren’t really made for this as far as safety. I don’t recommend this but to the original poster I would say 150 or so.

frnkeore

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Re: top speed estimate
« Reply #6 on: October 30, 2023, 01:34:38 AM »
Running at those speeds, your nose needs to lower than stock. Low enough that acceleration won't raise it above level. I would want it to be about 1" lower (nose down), under acceleration.

I'd start by cutting 1 coil out of the front springs. That will both lower it and increase spring rate. I would probably want a bigger bar, too.

That would be my starting point and adjust from there.
Frank

My427stang

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Re: top speed estimate
« Reply #7 on: October 30, 2023, 06:56:08 AM »
I think you will find the front of the hood will start to lift upward at anything over 130mph, and the front end will float more than the rear above that speed.  My Cobra hood would bend up about 4" all the way back to the hood pins at 145mph, and would settle back down as the speed dropped below 125mph or so.  The first time it happened, I panicked because I thought the hood was ruined.  I added pins to my '66 mustang to keep the hood on, and also kept the pins on my Mach I race car.   Lots of guys run over 140-150ish with their drag cars, but those hoods are pinned or dzus locked on.   Joe-JDC

Indeed, I did a high speed run with my Mustang, at the time, 489 inch, 3.70 gears, carbed.  I hit the 4th to 5th shift and saw the hood pulling HARD on the latch...corners were well above the fenders when I noticed it. Other than that, pretty uneventful, got out of it and bought pins.
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Tunnelwedge

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Re: top speed estimate
« Reply #8 on: October 30, 2023, 07:49:17 AM »
In 67 the Fairlane kicked ass at Daytona.
Mario had it sideways at 170 plus and was having the time of his life.
I met him in Dartmouth Nova Scotia at a small tire shop.
We had the green 67 Fairlane XL there that day. Pics and he signed the car.
I raced the crap out of the XL lots of times.
150 no problem.

fryedaddy

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Re: top speed estimate
« Reply #9 on: October 30, 2023, 09:28:03 AM »
thanks guys,i dont have a death wish,i was thinking about trying roll racing and i was worried i might get going too fast from a 30-40 mph start + 1/4 mile.i have hood pins,my car sits low,hoosiers,stock front suspension but in good shape.im concerned the roll racing might be a little too much speed for a 66 comet in stock suspension form.
1966 comet caliente 428 4 speed owned since 1983                                                 1973 f250 ranger xlt 360 4 speed papaw bought new

427mach1

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Re: top speed estimate
« Reply #10 on: October 30, 2023, 11:19:08 AM »
How fast you CAN go, of course, depends on available rear wheel horsepower and proper gearing.  Drag horsepower increases with the cube of the velocity whereas rolling resistance horsepower is proportional to the square of the velocity, so it adds up quickly.  I've run the numbers for my 70 Mach 1, which has a 454 cid sideoiler delivering approximately 400 horsepower to the rear wheels.  For a Cd of 0.52, frontal area of 20.2 square feet, and a weight of 3750, I calculate a top speed of about 170 mile per hour.  The fastest I've ever driven the car was 130 mph and I wouldn't want to go much faster than that.

cammerfe

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Re: top speed estimate
« Reply #11 on: October 30, 2023, 01:02:14 PM »
I ordered my '64 Custom/427-T with the mandatory 'HD' suspension and brakes and a 4.11 rear end. It was delivered to me in February and within several weeks I had installed Traction Master anti-spring-wrap bars, created and installed a deep oil pan to limit oil-pressure woes, and put spring jacks in the front coils and a re-calibrated front alignment. Eight inch M&H Racemasters took up residence in the trunk and for daily use a set of tall Atlas Bucrons went on the back to go with the 6.70-15s that came on the front from the factory. In March, we decided to go to Florida to spectate at the Twelve Hours Of Sebring. I swapped the 4.11 for a 3.50 and disconnected the speedo cable to preserve what was left of the 90 day warranty that was specific to the 427 engine. I'd installed a Sun 'Super' tach so we matched engine speeds in 4th gear with a friend's speedometer and I made up a small chart on a 3X5 card and taped it to the dash.

3000 on the tach equated to about 70 MPH. Except when I planned a weekend at Milan or Detroit Dragway, I left the unlocked 3.50 in the rear. I replaced the speedo gear with one that matched the gear and tire size.

The spring jacks in the front coils raised the front of the car by a couple of inches. Conventional wisdom said that raising the front of the car helped weight transfer to the rear and assisted the launch. It helped create the highly desired 'Gasser Look' and the only drawback was at high speeds. Starting at about 130 the front end feel would get light and float-y.

I'd busted off the output shaft in the T-10 trans and ended up walking home one night. I knew the Executive Engineer at T&C Livonia, where I worked at the time, and he released to me a then-not-yet-in-regular-production big in-'n'-out Toploader to replace it. I put it in, along with a Hurst shifter, and including the necessary new clutch disc, throwout bearing and output yoke. (I had to get the last three pieces from a dealer who specialized in big F-Series truck parts.)

I discovered that, when I came upon some sort of chibrolet 'performance' car on the highway, and a challenge ensued, it was possible to shift back into 3rd gear at a speedo-indicated 100 MPH. It not only made for an excellent 'passing gear', it often discouraged the 409 or corvette.

If we actually got it on, I could not only watch the tach, the speedometer was marked to 120, and the needle would go past the markings. Just to the right of the speedo was a red 'idiot' light marked 'GEN'---although the engine came equipped with an alternator. The speedo needle passed between the indicator bulb and the lens and was visible behind the red lens at about 130. If I shifted back into 4th when the needle disappeared, I was doing about right.

Coming back to Detroit from East Lansing one very early morning after taking the girlfriend back to school after a weekend home, I got into it with a corvette. I was probably going about 70-75 and he came up on me at about 80. I pushed it up a bit, and he did the same. Previous experience required me to look over at him with a big grin as I, quite ostentatiously, downshifted to 3rd at 100 and then nailed it. Soon after going back into 4th, I began to notice the float-y-ness but I was only half-a-dozen cars ahead and he hadn't quit.

Luckily we were on a long straight area of I-96, because I didn't let off until I was past 6000 on the tach. The car was so float-y and light that I was steering with only thumb and finger of each hand so as to not put in too much input. With the already-established extra altitude on the front of the car, the air-flow under the car was almost enough to have me doing a wheely.  It settled down when I let off.

The corvette was simply a pair of lights in the far-back distance. God is sometimes extra kind to fools. ;)

KS

fryedaddy

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Re: top speed estimate
« Reply #12 on: October 30, 2023, 01:22:09 PM »
i have only had my comet to 120 or so but it got smoother as i got faster.the windows were rolled up but debris started floating around in the car.i noticed the hood trying to raise so i put pins in a few days later.Steve Morris gave me a parachute, i installed in case i need it.if nothing else,it looks cool.
1966 comet caliente 428 4 speed owned since 1983                                                 1973 f250 ranger xlt 360 4 speed papaw bought new

cleandan

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Re: top speed estimate
« Reply #13 on: October 31, 2023, 02:50:50 PM »
If you plan on taking the Fairlane faster than 130, for any length of time, I strongly suggest you work on diverting the air going under the car.
The factory suspension is not built to safely control the loads experienced at speeds above 120 mph so anything above 130 is really working things hard.
The areas you get into real trouble occur when the road has a rolling hump that is not a jolt to the suspension from a hard bump but rather a full bottoming followed by a high rebound basically flying the car.

Above 140 everything changes in terms of steering input, suspension bounce and rebound, ride height associated with how the car reacts with the air rushing around it.

I have had my 1966 Sumbeam Tiger up to 157 MPH, and while it does have some suspension modifications, it is basically stock.....and I will never go that fast again unless I divert the air going under the car because it is literally on the brink of crashing at that speed.
125 and under the car is solid, stable, predictable and fun.
130ish and things begin to get light, but still tractable.
140 and the car is talking to you saying...are you sure you want to do this? as things get very light and much less controllable.
150 and the car is now telling you....No, nope, oh Ill go faster because I have the power, but you shouldn't.

machoneman

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Re: top speed estimate
« Reply #14 on: October 31, 2023, 08:31:01 PM »
"The areas you get into real trouble occur when the road has a rolling hump that is not a jolt to the suspension from a hard bump but rather a full bottoming followed by a high rebound basically flying the car."

Well said. Few roads are designed for really high speeds and worse, road repairs, pothole fillers, heavily canted roads (water runoff) and more all conspire to send you sailing off into the weeds even with a well prepared car. Actual road racing courses are carefully made and maintained to avoid dips and rises that can set a car sailing with all 4 tires off the ground.

Btw, going better than 140 in my '70 Mach 1, even with every trick in the suspension 'book' (Ford's own 1970 Boss 302 Chassis Manual) steering got light on a great and flat stretch of road. Ah, the flexi under the bumper spoiler was pretty useless at speed to keep air from going under.  The winning 1970 Trans-Am Mustangs all had much bigger and deeper chin spoilers (custom made, aluminum, rigidly mounted) to keep the front down and avoid that light steering at speeds often approaching 170 mph on long tracks. And yes, I'm also a big fan of doing what one can to minimize under-the-car airflow. 

Some great pics on just how big the custom chin spoilers were on the Trans-Am car:     

http://www.historictransam.com/Drivers/RossMyers70Mustang16.html
« Last Edit: October 31, 2023, 08:43:24 PM by machoneman »
Bob Maag