Author Topic: transmission options  (Read 4243 times)

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Cyclone03

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Re: transmission options
« Reply #15 on: May 01, 2023, 09:19:47 PM »
As a TKO600 owner since 2010 get a TKX mine will not go into 3rd gear at speed.
I would love to take mine to the track but I can’t get it into third to save my life.
Lance H

Tom Gahman

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Re: transmission options
« Reply #16 on: May 02, 2023, 04:08:37 AM »
    Would a different shifter help 3rd gear? Will a TKO600 handle high rpm launches with slicks in a 4000 lb. car?Also would a TKX?
« Last Edit: May 02, 2023, 04:12:02 AM by Tom Gahman »

Tunnelwedge

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Re: transmission options
« Reply #17 on: May 02, 2023, 04:59:16 AM »
As a TKO600 owner since 2010 get a TKX mine will not go into 3rd gear at speed.
I would love to take mine to the track but I can’t get it into third to save my life.

This is a synchro problem. Easy fix on the work bench.

Tunnelwedge

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Re: transmission options
« Reply #18 on: May 02, 2023, 05:38:02 AM »
    Would a different shifter help 3rd gear? Will a TKO600 handle high rpm launches with slicks in a 4000 lb. car?Also would a TKX?

1. No
2. Yes
3. Yes

machoneman

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Re: transmission options
« Reply #19 on: May 02, 2023, 07:21:51 AM »
Bob Maag

Tunnelwedge

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Re: transmission options
« Reply #20 on: May 02, 2023, 07:58:25 AM »
                What manual trans missions are there that can handle drag strip duty in a 4000 lb.
Galaxie with slicks and 500 hp? My top loader is fine at the moment, but it may be the next weak link.
I don't need one at this moment but with summer shows and swap meets coming up, I'd like to have an idea of what to buy or stay away from, like something that appears in good shape but parts are no longer available for.
           Thanks,Tom.

These guys say 900 ft/lbs. Go ahead try and break it I guess...

https://americanpowertrain.com/shop/transmissions/tkx-5-speed/tremec-tkx-extreme-upgrade/

475fetoploader

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Re: transmission options
« Reply #21 on: May 02, 2023, 08:37:48 AM »
Ok, the TKX with modifications has my attention. How bad do you have to butcher a 67 Fairlane trans tunnel though?
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Tunnelwedge

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Re: transmission options
« Reply #22 on: May 02, 2023, 09:47:26 AM »
Ok, the TKX with modifications has my attention. How bad do you have to butcher a 67 Fairlane trans tunnel though?

You don't. It bolts right in a 67 Fairlane.

blykins

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Re: transmission options
« Reply #23 on: May 02, 2023, 11:13:02 AM »
I would not recommend a 600 now that the TKX is out.  So many of my customers complained about not being able to shift them quickly.  There were things we could do to them to make them shift well, but it was pretty extensive.  Haven't heard anything bad about the TKX's I've sold.
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My427stang

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Re: transmission options
« Reply #24 on: May 02, 2023, 11:58:52 AM »
As a guy with 17 years on a TKO-600 and multiple installs, I agree with Brent, no reason to go TKO. 

The TKX addressed the floor shape shortfalls, and although a customer installed one, and a friend also did a modified housing TKO, the lack of any complaining on the TKX, not overt praise, lets me only deduce that it fits much better.  I will ask him specifically though

In terms of the 3rd gear shifting, I do absolutely think a shifter helps.  I arguably in 17 years hit 3rd gear more than most, and I have found, it's more due to the lack of spring that allows an old Toploader guy to go "over and up" to 3rd, only to end up in the dead zone in between 3/5 gates.  The aftermarket shifters have more of a 5th gear lockout which has to help.  That being said, I don't miss 3rd anymore as I know where it is after all this time.  Sort of proving the concept, not to mention, if it was exclusively a synchro issue, the other gears wouldn't work well either

I'd also say that an indexed bell is MUCH more important with the tight bearings of a TKO/TKX input shaft, and if running a diaphragm clutch, having the proper clutch lever throw to not overcenter.  Each of these can contribute to shifting issues, although not everyone runs a diaphragm, still a valid issue if you do

Last, I cannot prove it helped, but I used Mopar ATF-4 in mine 17 years ago, because I had a ton of it left over.  I will do it again if/when I change it, but no idea if that changed synchro engagement, but it is something different I did in mine. 

I am in no way saying that better syncro design wasn't needed or didn't help, but once the loose nut behind the wheel stopped trying to shift it like a Toploader, I became very repeatable in finding 3rd gear at 6200 RPM or so
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randomologist

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Re: transmission options
« Reply #25 on: May 02, 2023, 12:17:07 PM »
The issue with the TKO-600 and high rpm shifts (5500rpm+, but especially 6000rpm+) has to do with the big, heavy steel syncros. My TKO-600 was put together by Modern Driveline with carbon fiber syncros and it shifts fine at 6,000rpm, but it's still notchy. I mostly baby the 427, but there are occasions when I get on it. I've never missed a shift.

That said, like the 100% consensus in this thread, there is almost no reason to even consider the TKO series anymore since they don't really compete with each other as the TKO-600 was discontinued and replaced with the TKX.

TKX vs. TKO-600.
Strength = Equal
Weight = TKX
Case size = TKX
Shift Quality = TKX
Availability = TKX
Reliability = TKX
Cost = TKO-600 rebuilt, but barely.

Tunnelwedge

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Re: transmission options
« Reply #26 on: May 03, 2023, 04:51:50 AM »
As a guy with 17 years on a TKO-600 and multiple installs, I agree with Brent, no reason to go TKO. 

The TKX addressed the floor shape shortfalls, and although a customer installed one, and a friend also did a modified housing TKO, the lack of any complaining on the TKX, not overt praise, lets me only deduce that it fits much better.  I will ask him specifically though

In terms of the 3rd gear shifting, I do absolutely think a shifter helps.  I arguably in 17 years hit 3rd gear more than most, and I have found, it's more due to the lack of spring that allows an old Toploader guy to go "over and up" to 3rd, only to end up in the dead zone in between 3/5 gates.  The aftermarket shifters have more of a 5th gear lockout which has to help.  That being said, I don't miss 3rd anymore as I know where it is after all this time.  Sort of proving the concept, not to mention, if it was exclusively a synchro issue, the other gears wouldn't work well either

I'd also say that an indexed bell is MUCH more important with the tight bearings of a TKO/TKX input shaft, and if running a diaphragm clutch, having the proper clutch lever throw to not overcenter.  Each of these can contribute to shifting issues, although not everyone runs a diaphragm, still a valid issue if you do

Last, I cannot prove it helped, but I used Mopar ATF-4 in mine 17 years ago, because I had a ton of it left over.  I will do it again if/when I change it, but no idea if that changed synchro engagement, but it is something different I did in mine. 

I am in no way saying that better syncro design wasn't needed or didn't help, but once the loose nut behind the wheel stopped trying to shift it like a Toploader, I became very repeatable in finding 3rd gear at 6200 RPM or so

Cyclone03's TKO600 is an older one. It probably still has the plastic shift fork pads. That would be the first things to get changed.
The shifter just needs the brass bushing. An oil clean out and change. And of course the synchro's. All easy fixes on the bench.

JamesonRacing

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Re: transmission options
« Reply #27 on: May 03, 2023, 06:18:51 AM »
The one down side of a TKX vs TKO is the available input shaft lengths.  I'm sure it doesn't matter to many people, but the ability to use your existing bell housing and driveshaft, makes a difference to me.  I'd have already changed to a TKX if the top-loader-length input shaft was available.  Instead I sent my TKO back to Hanlon for a refreshing and the latest upgrades.
1966 Fairlane GT, Silver Blue/Black 496/C4 (9.93@133)
1966 Fairlane GT, Nightmist Blue/Black 465/TKO (11.41@122)
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Rory428

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Re: transmission options
« Reply #28 on: May 03, 2023, 08:55:45 AM »
The one down side of a TKX vs TKO is the available input shaft lengths.  I'm sure it doesn't matter to many people, but the ability to use your existing bell housing and driveshaft, makes a difference to me.  I'd have already changed to a TKX if the top-loader-length input shaft was available.  Instead I sent my TKO back to Hanlon for a refreshing and the latest upgrades.
Yeah, that is certainly a negative for me as well. I would like to swap out my current Toploader in my 59, but not a big fan of having to spend even more $$$ on a QuickTime bellhousing, or a spacer plate to make up for the longer T5 length input shaft. Tremec makes a TKX to be a straight bolt up to the bellhousing for a GM Muncie, no idea why they wouldn`t offer a similar option for the Ford guys. I am sure there are many guys that would like to install a 5 speed overdrive transmission into their old Mustang/Cougar/Fairlane/Torino, etc, that would prefer not to deal with the input shaft situation.
1978 Fairmont,FE 427 with 428 crank, 4 speed Jerico best of 9.972@132.54MPH 1.29 60 foot
1985 Mustang HB 331 SB Ford, 4 speed Jerico, best of 10.29@128 MPH 1.40 60 foot.
1974 F350 race car hauler 390 NP435 4 speed
1959 Ford Meteor 2 dr sedan. 428 Cobra Jet, 4 speed Toploader. 12.54@ 108 MPH

Tunnelwedge

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Re: transmission options
« Reply #29 on: May 03, 2023, 12:23:19 PM »
The one down side of a TKX vs TKO is the available input shaft lengths.  I'm sure it doesn't matter to many people, but the ability to use your existing bell housing and driveshaft, makes a difference to me.  I'd have already changed to a TKX if the top-loader-length input shaft was available.  Instead I sent my TKO back to Hanlon for a refreshing and the latest upgrades.
Yeah, that is certainly a negative for me as well. I would like to swap out my current Toploader in my 59, but not a big fan of having to spend even more $$$ on a QuickTime bellhousing, or a spacer plate to make up for the longer T5 length input shaft. Tremec makes a TKX to be a straight bolt up to the bellhousing for a GM Muncie, no idea why they wouldn`t offer a similar option for the Ford guys. I am sure there are many guys that would like to install a 5 speed overdrive transmission into their old Mustang/Cougar/Fairlane/Torino, etc, that would prefer not to deal with the input shaft situation.

The TKX comes with a Ford length input shaft, you can even order a 10 spline if you want.
But I would get the 26 spline, much better shaft.
Fits a stock FE or Quicktime bell.
Really hard to beat the TKX in price also. I wish I had an extra 4K in the wallet.

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/rem-tcet17765