Author Topic: Horsepower Guesstimate ?  (Read 1585 times)

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Bob H

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Horsepower Guesstimate ?
« on: December 28, 2022, 10:42:53 AM »
Last night I stumbled across the Comp Cams warranty card for my motor. BACKSTORY .. the previous owner passed away and the motor was redone and ready to install but the builder retired so I have little info. The basics are as follows ... 390 bored .030, 428 crank, 67 GT heads ( assuming stock valve sizes ), reproduction 428 CJ cast exhaust manifolds, Edelbrock Performer RPM intake, Holley carb. The warranty card has the following info: Part# 33-226-4, Grind# FB 270H - 10, SER# WT9086 - 16. It will be installed in a 66 Fairlane GT with street tires. The previous owner told the builder that he wanted to go somewhere in the 13's ( 3:50 gears ) with a nice sounding rump rump idle. Will this cam fit the bill and are there any guesstimates on HP ?              Thanks.              Bob

Here are some other numbers:
Gross valve lift ...   .519 ( Intake and Exhaust )
Duration @ .006 Tappet lift ....   .270 ( Intake and Exhaust )
Lobe Separation ...  110.0
Bob Henry
66 Fairlane GT
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390 ( 428 crank )

1968galaxie

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Re: Horsepower Guesstimate ?
« Reply #1 on: December 28, 2022, 03:02:30 PM »
I would certainly bin/sell the 270H camshaft.
I would be at 6 to 8 degrees extra exhaust duration with headers and free flow exhaust system.
With cast exhaust manifolds I would suspect more exhaust duration would be required to aid the cork in the exhaust stream.

Send a note to B Lykins. He will have a handle on what cam profile works in your application.

e philpott

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Re: Horsepower Guesstimate ?
« Reply #2 on: December 28, 2022, 03:59:16 PM »
320 HP with factory exhaust manifolds

Bob H

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Re: Horsepower Guesstimate ?
« Reply #3 on: December 29, 2022, 08:05:47 AM »
For now this motor is co
I would certainly bin/sell the 270H camshaft.
I would be at 6 to 8 degrees extra exhaust duration with headers and free flow exhaust system.
With cast exhaust manifolds I would suspect more exhaust duration would be required to aid the cork in the exhaust stream.

Send a note to B Lykins. He will have a handle on what cam profile works in your application.

At this point in time the motor is complete so I would not want to spend more $$. I'm trying to get the car back on the road and go to some cruise ins and an occasional pass down the strip. I would be curious as to whether or not there would be a noticeable gain if I go to headers instead of the 428 CJ cast exhaust manifolds. Eventually at some point a few years from now I would be considering a completely different motor with a bigger bore. I don't have the exhaust system yet so if I switch to headers I would have to make that decision before the exhaust system installation. I can always sell the exhaust manifolds ( they are new ) to help offset the cost of the headers. If the HP gain will not be very much then I won't bother.
Bob Henry
66 Fairlane GT
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390 ( 428 crank )

rockhouse66

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Re: Horsepower Guesstimate ?
« Reply #4 on: December 29, 2022, 08:58:27 AM »
I don't know what "motor is co" means, but I agree on losing the 270H.  I had this cam in my 428 CJ Torino and it was a dog.
Jim

Bob H

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Re: Horsepower Guesstimate ?
« Reply #5 on: December 29, 2022, 11:15:18 AM »
Sorry Jim about the typo. I don't know how the motor is co got in there. I do have additional thoughts. If the factory 390 GT was rated at 335 HP with the cramped stock exhaust manifolds then it would be not logical for a 416 CI motor with better exhaust manifolds and a slightly better cam to be actually weaker than the original 390 GT ... or did I miss something here ?
Bob Henry
66 Fairlane GT
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390 ( 428 crank )

Royce

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Re: Horsepower Guesstimate ?
« Reply #6 on: December 29, 2022, 12:21:47 PM »
I would say 360-370 horse...
1955 Thunderbird Competition Coupe Altered Chassis "War Bird" 383 Lincoln Y block 520 hp
1955 Thunderbird 292 275 hp Y Block
1956 Ford Victoria 292 Y block

1957 Mercury 2dr Wagon "Battle Wagon" drag car 
1957 Thunderbird Glass body Tube Chassis drag car 333 cu in 500 hp Ford Y block
1961 Starliner 390/375 clone
1965 GT40 tribute w/FE
1966 Falcon Pro Touring project
Kaase Boss 547. 840 HP 698 Torque  pump gas
1992 BMW V-12 5.0
2001 Lincoln 5.4 4 cam.
1968 Cougar XR7

jayb

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Re: Horsepower Guesstimate ?
« Reply #7 on: December 29, 2022, 01:32:24 PM »
A stock 428CJ with the stock exhaust manifolds will make around 365 HP, at least on my dyno.  You are down some cubes, but up very slightly on the cam, so I think Royce has nailed it with 360-370 HP.  Not sure a Fairlane GT with 3.50 gears would get into the 13s with that engine.
Jay Brown
- 1969 Mach 1, Drag Week 2005 Winner NA/BB, 511" FE (10.60s @ 129); Drag Week 2007 Runner-Up PA/BB, 490" Supercharged FE (9.35 @ 151)
- 1964 Ford Galaxie, Drag Week 2009 Winner Modified NA (9.50s @ 143), 585" SOHC
- 1969 Shelby Clone, Drag Week 2015 Winner Modified NA (Average 8.98 @ 149), 585" SOHC

   

Joe-JDC

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Re: Horsepower Guesstimate ?
« Reply #8 on: December 29, 2022, 04:57:17 PM »
Not with those stock heads and no larger valves.  320-330 is generous.  I just dyno tested two 434 CJs, and they were in the 360s hp range.  Joe-JDC
Joe-JDC '70GT-500

Bob H

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Re: Horsepower Guesstimate ?
« Reply #9 on: December 29, 2022, 09:23:32 PM »
OK ... now I have more info. Earlier this afternoon  I spoke with my neighbor who lives down the street. He ran NHRA for years back in the day. In fact, one of his earliest street cars was a 66 GT. According to the NHRA testing to determine classification the 335 HP was not correct. It was actually a lot LOWER. This explains why the 66 GT in total stock trim was lucky to get out of the 15's. Now I have some decisions to make. I don't want a slow sled on the road even though it is primarily a cruise in car with occasional strip use for fun. I guess that now is the time to install another camshaft while the motor is still new sitting on the engine stand. Oh well, more planning to do.
Bob Henry
66 Fairlane GT
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390 ( 428 crank )

Bob H

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Re: Horsepower Guesstimate ?
« Reply #10 on: January 11, 2023, 03:27:26 PM »
UPDATE ... now I have some more info ... and still need some more input. My rocker system does have the adjustable setup with some sort of rocker rails that are highly polished ( shiny ). The dimensions of the shaft are as follows: .838 overall diameter, .569 inside diameter, about .135 wall ( material ) thickness. I currently have the factory reproduction CJ exhaust manifolds. I am considering the upgrade to FPA headers but I have another decision to make. I have the GT 14 bolt heads and at some point in the future I would upgrade the heads for sure to the 16 bolt CJ or aftermarket heads. I heard from one of our Fairlane club members who said that he ran the 16 bolt FPA headers on the GT heads utilizing 8 bolts and they sealed up for him without any major issues. Does anyone else have any experience with this ? Now for the next issue ... I am planning on obtaining the rocker rail end supports to firm things up a bit. Now for the big question ... I need a bigger cam to get where I want to be ... mid 13's with a really bumpy idle so it sounds good in a parking lot. Any recommendations ? like around a .560 or slightly higher lift with a lot more duration and a slight change in the lobe separation ( for more chop ) ? I want to place my order for headers as soon as I get some feedback form y'all, and also order the cam and end brackets as well. Thanks.             Bob
Bob Henry
66 Fairlane GT
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390 ( 428 crank )

fastf67

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Re: Horsepower Guesstimate ?
« Reply #11 on: January 12, 2023, 04:05:53 AM »
As Joe said, pretty much your largest down fall is going to be the heads and exhaust manifolds. C7AE heads were about the lowest performing head that was manufactured for the FE engine. I'm not sure there is a cam (off the shelf) that will get your Fairlane in the 13s comfortably with those heads and exhaust plus the weight of your ride needs to be considered. The engine builders on this forum may have a cam custom ground to suit the intake and exhaust system, but a much better start would be to change the heads. It would be cheaper to change them then paying to have them reworked and then with headers, you will have no problems being able to see 13s. You can throw a bigger cam at it, but the cam will over run the flow those heads and exhaust pretty quick.

Bob H

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Re: Horsepower Guesstimate ?
« Reply #12 on: January 12, 2023, 07:51:45 AM »
I am willing to get the headers, particularly if the 16 bolt pattern will work. That will help with the eventual changeover to better heads. Also, I will be installing a little less restrictive mufflers. I am probably not prepared at this point to buy new heads. What would be the cost of new heads and can I use some of my other stuff on the current heads ( newly done and never run ) to help minimize the cost ?
Bob Henry
66 Fairlane GT
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390 ( 428 crank )

lalessi

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Re: Horsepower Guesstimate ?
« Reply #13 on: January 12, 2023, 11:57:45 AM »
I have Edelbrock 60079 Heads, 8 bolt, 76CC chambers. I have had them for 8 years. I would have bought TFS heads had they been available. I have FPA headers with the 16 bolt flanges and they seal just fine with only 8 bolts. You can buy assembled ED heads for around $900 ea. I actually paid less than 1400 for the pair I have. The Trick Flow heads are $300-$400 more expensive each (well worth it). I have an off the shelf Comp Cam 281/281 adv duration .571/.571 lift. but if I was doing it again I would contact customfordcams.com ( Brent Lykins) and get a custom cam quote. The stock cylinder heads on FE's are a large detriment. Edelbrock claims that their top end packages (manifold, heads, and cam) are worth 100HP. You can use the stock rockers and shafts with the ED heads if you want.

Lynn
« Last Edit: January 12, 2023, 11:59:53 AM by lalessi »
Lynn

Bob H

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Re: Horsepower Guesstimate ?
« Reply #14 on: January 12, 2023, 05:12:58 PM »
Ok ... new plan. I just spent about an hour on the phone with a good friend who has done a lot of Ford racing over the years. The new game plan is to give up on the idea of changing the camshaft. We think that I can wait for a while longer to get the car on the road and go all in on the motor that I have. Step #1 will be to contact FPA and order the 16 bolt headers since they will work with a variety of heads. Then it gets more complicated but I should be able to still wind up with something pretty strong. I was originally going to hold out for a 427 or 428 based motor but this current motor ( 416 ) is not too far off the original 428 ( 426 in reality )... a 10 cubic inch difference. I should be able to wind up with something pretty respectable.
Bob Henry
66 Fairlane GT
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390 ( 428 crank )