Author Topic: 397ci Tunnel Port Dyno Mule Build  (Read 6875 times)

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blykins

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397ci Tunnel Port Dyno Mule Build
« on: July 07, 2022, 11:42:25 AM »
I haven't posted any builds in a while.  I've been in a little funk because of struggles to get parts in and get engines out the door.   Parts availability hasn't really bounced back since 2020 and everything is slow or hard to get.  I've been planning this build for a little bit and since my interest has waned, I thought I would post it up here in hopes that you guys will give me a coach's talk to get everything going. 

Let me preempt everything by saying that Tunnel Port heads have always been my favorite.  I don't care that the intakes have big tubes running through them.  They're just cool and when properly prepped, they make some big horsepower.   As a matter of fact, some of my highest horsepower FE's have been TP engines.   The majority of them have been 465ci to 511ci, but while I was sitting and pondering the meaning of life a little while ago, I realized that I had never built a smaller displacement TP engine.  One thought led to another and then I started looking around the shop for spare parts.  I still have some Project JJ parts left over........timing cover.......crankshaft......timing set.....  Then I remembered that I had a C8AX oil pan sitting in the corner.   Only "major" parts I needed were the block, heads, and intake, so I started scouring my normal sources for those items.   

Ended up doing a little horse trading for some new parts and ended up with a set of fairly nice TP heads, a 1x4 intake, and a 427 S/O service block.   Bingo.







Also snagged a little Dominator carburetor.....



So, now we have a little more direction.  Bore should finish up at 4.250" and JJ's 352 crank will be used, which will put us at 397 cubic inches. 

I sent the oil pan and intake off to Bobby Crumpley to be vapor blasted.  Here's the end results for that:





I also sent the carb down to Drew and he's currently working on it for me:



For the rotating assembly, I will be using a set of custom R&R aluminum rods coupled with a set of custom Diamond pistons.  Both of which have yet to be ordered as I'm waiting on the head work to be completed. 

The heads are getting a set of SI stainless intake valves and a set of Manley stainless exhaust valves.  The brands are mismatched, because (believe it or not) there are no companies that had blanks in stock for both valves.  I tried Ferrea, I tried SI, I tried Manley, I tried Mast, and I tried Victory.  So I did what I could.  Once the heads are fully machined and set up correctly, they will be "ported" along with the intake manifold.   I put "ported" in quotes because they normally end up smaller than they were from the factory in terms of port volume, but end up flowing around 370 cfm. 

The camshaft is one of my custom solid rollers that I had Comp Cams grind for me.  They also performed their "MSE" treatment, which is a micropolishing treatment on the surfaces of the journals and lobes. 

This will be a long work in progress, just because of the amount of custom parts involved, port work, etc.  However, the goal is to have a nostalgic looking, odd-ball displacement, Tunnel Port that screams.  I know that there were some engines built back "in the day" with the 427/352, bore/stroke combination and also some built with the 428/330, bore/stroke combination.  I have never handled one of those combinations, so that's all the more incentive to get some more data into my head.

That's all I have for now. 

I do a lot of "dyno mule" builds just to try new parts or concepts out and often sell them after completion.  My good engine builder buddy, Dale Meers, looked me in the eye the other day and said, "You absolutely can NOT sell this one.  You need to quit talking about it, find a car, and do some racing."  We will see.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2022, 11:45:41 AM by blykins »
Brent Lykins
Lykins Motorsports
Custom FE Street, Drag Race, Road Race, and Pulling Truck Engines
Custom Roller & Flat Tappet Camshafts
www.lykinsmotorsports.com
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frnkeore

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Re: 397ci Tunnel Port Dyno Mule Build
« Reply #1 on: July 07, 2022, 12:27:05 PM »
Great built, Brent!! I'm looking forward to what you can get out of it.

What size is the 4500 and what is the plan to attach the 4500 carb, to the 4150 base?

Regarding the valves, are they stock diameter?

What is the basic max rpm range, you are shooting for?

A dry sump would have a lot of advantages in this build.
Frank

jayb

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Re: 397ci Tunnel Port Dyno Mule Build
« Reply #2 on: July 07, 2022, 02:46:12 PM »
How much RPM do you think the crank will take?  I'd like to see that engine go to 8500...
Jay Brown
- 1969 Mach 1, Drag Week 2005 Winner NA/BB, 511" FE (10.60s @ 129); Drag Week 2007 Runner-Up PA/BB, 490" Supercharged FE (9.35 @ 151)
- 1964 Ford Galaxie, Drag Week 2009 Winner Modified NA (9.50s @ 143), 585" SOHC
- 1969 Shelby Clone, Drag Week 2015 Winner Modified NA (Average 8.98 @ 149), 585" SOHC

   

blykins

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Re: 397ci Tunnel Port Dyno Mule Build
« Reply #3 on: July 07, 2022, 02:55:58 PM »
How much RPM do you think the crank will take?  I'd like to see that engine go to 8500...

That's a good question.  LOL  Aluminum rods and short, light pistons will certainly help.

And I would too....
Brent Lykins
Lykins Motorsports
Custom FE Street, Drag Race, Road Race, and Pulling Truck Engines
Custom Roller & Flat Tappet Camshafts
www.lykinsmotorsports.com
brent@lykinsmotorsports.com
www.customfordcams.com
502-759-1431
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Falcon67

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Re: 397ci Tunnel Port Dyno Mule Build
« Reply #4 on: July 07, 2022, 03:18:21 PM »
Quote
I do a lot of "dyno mule" builds just to try new parts or concepts out and often sell them after completion.  My good engine builder buddy, Dale Meers, looked me in the eye the other day and said, "You absolutely can NOT sell this one.  You need to quit talking about it, find a car, and do some racing."  We will see.

I'll second that - that's a cool build.  And I 2nd your friend's motion because dyno is one thing, it's a whole 'nuther joy to kick a trick build in the ass and ride it down the strip.  We're all chomping on the supply chain deals, I got a $170,000 in network items on order at work and have maybe 1/20th of it in possession. 
« Last Edit: July 08, 2022, 08:47:32 AM by Falcon67 »

gregaba

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Re: 397ci Tunnel Port Dyno Mule Build
« Reply #5 on: July 07, 2022, 05:17:06 PM »
I think the big bore short stroke combo is going to surprise you.
With the light weigh rotating assembly you could see 93-9500 RPM.
Greg

blykins

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Re: 397ci Tunnel Port Dyno Mule Build
« Reply #6 on: July 07, 2022, 06:24:45 PM »
I think the big bore short stroke combo is going to surprise you.
With the light weigh rotating assembly you could see 93-9500 RPM.
Greg

It doesn't have enough camshaft to turn that kind of rpm.  But I bet it would sound good if it did....

There's a lot of times that I prefer the big bore/short stroke combinations, but I'll have to give it to the guys who turn the high rpms with the long stroke combos.  The Mountain Motor Pro Stock guys turn about 9000 with a 5.750" stroke.  A lot of the time, it's not the stroke "number" that matters, it's the weight of the rotating assembly, among a few other variables. 

Brent Lykins
Lykins Motorsports
Custom FE Street, Drag Race, Road Race, and Pulling Truck Engines
Custom Roller & Flat Tappet Camshafts
www.lykinsmotorsports.com
brent@lykinsmotorsports.com
www.customfordcams.com
502-759-1431
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galaxiex

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Re: 397ci Tunnel Port Dyno Mule Build
« Reply #7 on: July 07, 2022, 08:15:31 PM »
This looks like a really cool build!

Thanks for sharing your experimenting with different combinations.
Every 20 minute job is 1 broken bolt away from becoming a 3 day ordeal.

mike7570

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Re: 397ci Tunnel Port Dyno Mule Build
« Reply #8 on: July 07, 2022, 09:59:16 PM »
How much RPM do you think the crank will take?  I'd like to see that engine go to 8500...
Hey Brent, I still have that 391 steel crank available. It will balance easier with those aluminum rods.
Current stroke is 3.99, BBC journal, 1.90w, nitrided. Machined for FE.
Mike
« Last Edit: July 07, 2022, 10:02:22 PM by mike7570 »

blykins

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Re: 397ci Tunnel Port Dyno Mule Build
« Reply #9 on: July 08, 2022, 05:37:28 AM »
How much RPM do you think the crank will take?  I'd like to see that engine go to 8500...
Hey Brent, I still have that 391 steel crank available. It will balance easier with those aluminum rods.
Current stroke is 3.99, BBC journal, 1.90w, nitrided. Machined for FE.
Mike

I appreciate it, Mike, but I'm going to stick with the 3.500" stroke.   A 4" stroke is almost getting back to the cubic inches that I have build experience with.   The 352 crank will balance fine with the light rods. 
Brent Lykins
Lykins Motorsports
Custom FE Street, Drag Race, Road Race, and Pulling Truck Engines
Custom Roller & Flat Tappet Camshafts
www.lykinsmotorsports.com
brent@lykinsmotorsports.com
www.customfordcams.com
502-759-1431
Instagram:  brentlykinsmotorsports
YouTube:  Lykins Motorsports

machoneman

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Re: 397ci Tunnel Port Dyno Mule Build
« Reply #10 on: July 08, 2022, 06:49:56 AM »
Now that is a really cool build Brent! I also like the idea of a really high rpm engine yet understand the cam does have limits. Still, it would be cool to see some A-B runs with a bigger stick and more rpms. That or....beg, borrow or steal a dual quad TP intake with again some A-B tests.
Bob Maag

My427stang

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Re: 397ci Tunnel Port Dyno Mule Build
« Reply #11 on: July 08, 2022, 07:07:40 AM »
I am looking forward to this one, what a cool build. 
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428kidd

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Re: 397ci Tunnel Port Dyno Mule Build
« Reply #12 on: July 08, 2022, 08:14:20 AM »
Cool build Brent, if nothing else you need a good shop truck to drop that down in! Every shop truck needs tunnel ports dont they?? All seriousness id like to see you throw a 3bl in there on the dyno to see how it stacks up to the dominator.

Falcon67

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Re: 397ci Tunnel Port Dyno Mule Build
« Reply #13 on: July 08, 2022, 08:56:19 AM »
You might remember me talking about it - I did a "stock stroke experiment" with a 351C.  Stock crank, neutral balance ($$$ - 4 chunks of Mallory), lighter H beam rods and very light pistons.  Off the shelf Crane 238 solid flat cam, home ported 4V heads with tongues, 4V Funnelweb intake.  "750" DP Frakencarb with ProForm and Holley parts.  Never dynoed, but made over 500 on gas based on weight and MPH on the track, shifting at 6800.  Easy 530+ on methanol had I tried it.  Great motor, pulled like a jet in the lights on the 1/8 mile.  Won a lot of rounds with that combo.  Block gave up during its second season on track and something caused the crank thrust surface to get eaten away.  Hope the new 427 you're helping me with makes easy power like that LOL.  Short strokers rock.

My crazy dream - 180" FED with a stack injected 289+powerglide turning 9K at the shift.   8)
« Last Edit: July 08, 2022, 08:58:15 AM by Falcon67 »

oldiron.fe

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Re: 397ci Tunnel Port Dyno Mule Build
« Reply #14 on: July 08, 2022, 12:36:43 PM »
                                                                                                                                                                        in the 60s maybe early 70s 396 fe were used for a short time on our tracks west central wis.   as I remember they used the 361 steel truck cranks and lemans rods-but also narrowed nascar rods                 the engines were tunnelports - to turn rpms for power rods/pistons were heavy and valve train issues   caused more problems than a 454 tunnelport pulling harder off the corners at lower rpms---the cars were probably the fastest short track in the country 5/8 paved at lacrosse wis.---any one remember    dick trickle/tommy reffner-- trickle and fe ford power won well over 1000 races more than 70 in one               season in the midwest --few mopars ran and fe power out ran the 496/498 chev. at the time!!!                  I would run a nice 361 steel crank for a build like this - good insurance! and not too expensive to do!                with lighter/better parts today--- turn th rpms up!!   JS oldiron
66' Fairlanes 427 (08/26/67- present)
66/67' Fairlanes
70' Mustang Fastback
66' Dually