Author Topic: What are Shelby engine values from an internal parts viewpoint?  (Read 1067 times)

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cleandan

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I have a 1965 289 HiPo that needs a rebuild.
It is currently running okay but a refresh is in order.

I am wondering if changing some internal parts will hurt the collector value of the finished engine.

I will certainly keep anything external that has a numbers matching casting.

But what about installing forged pistons, or an aftermarket crank and rods, a camshaft and rocker system?
Will changing these parts hurt the value?

Of course anything that gets removed will be kept as part of the "kit" for this particular car.
That way all the factory parts are still available, even if they are not currently installed and being used.

Some of the potential changes are simply to use newer parts that have not been cycled so many times over the last 56 years.

Thanks for any insights.

machoneman

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Re: What are Shelby engine values from an internal parts viewpoint?
« Reply #1 on: June 17, 2022, 06:38:45 PM »
If you're concerned, buy a complete 289 as a spare and build it to whatever level you want. They are relatively cheap and since you need a rebuild anyway, the $ difference should be no big deal.
« Last Edit: June 18, 2022, 07:06:20 AM by machoneman »
Bob Maag

Joe-JDC

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Re: What are Shelby engine values from an internal parts viewpoint?
« Reply #2 on: June 17, 2022, 09:26:14 PM »
Crankshaft, rods with 3/8" bolts, camshaft, lifters, block with date code, heads with date code, intake with date code, heads with spring pockets, intake manifold, exhaust manifolds, damper, timing cover housing, valve covers, carb, distributor, coil bracket, accessories brackets all are important.  Pistons, valve size, camshaft, can be changed for a rebuild and still be considered 289 HP.  I agree with previous post that you should build another 289 and keep the original HP together.  The 289 4V is not considered a HP, but the 289/271 horsepower is the real HP.    It will be worth more that way.  Joe-JDC
Joe-JDC '70GT-500

machoneman

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Re: What are Shelby engine values from an internal parts viewpoint?
« Reply #3 on: June 18, 2022, 09:28:16 AM »
As an example, I did some research and the $1,900 this outfit wants for a long block is in line with many other rebuilder prices.
I am NOT however recommending this firm as I have zero knowledge of them. Perhaps Brent can also guide you here for other 289 long block sources OR offer a budget rebuild himself.


https://spprecision.com/products/ford-289-47-long-block-crate-engine-sale.html
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cleandan

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Re: What are Shelby engine values from an internal parts viewpoint?
« Reply #4 on: June 18, 2022, 10:16:34 AM »
Thanks so far guys, I appreciate your input.
Maybe I should clarify a bit more.

Currently the engine is fully correct in every aspect, and running well enough.
It is simply getting tired and in need of a refresh to make things better.
A major portion of this refresh stems from needing to rebalance the flywheel so things will be coming apart anyway.

I do not have aspirations of making a bunch more power, nor do I have a desire to deviate from stock components where the external view of the engine is concerned.

My inquiry is focused on some internal upgrades for better durability....like forged pistons to better survive those times when I can not get proper fuel on a cruise.
Better valvetrain components, connecting rods, and crankshaft due more to many stress cycles over the last 56 years than any kind of performance upgrades.

The idea of putting this engine on a stand is a good one but I don't know if that will be required because while this car does get driven in a very spirited manner, it is not racing in any way other than an occasional road going challenge.

My intent is to keep all the factory casting as is if possible, with some internal (unseen) upgrades if prudent.

I just don't know how much value I may hurt by installing the wrong internal parts.

machoneman

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Re: What are Shelby engine values from an internal parts viewpoint?
« Reply #5 on: June 18, 2022, 10:46:17 AM »
As Joe said, so, so many parts, internal as well, are rare today for a unmolested HiPo 289. Heck, JMO but to me that somewhat tired engine but still all OEM is worth a lot more in its current condition. Example: Tiger and Cobra fans would be a likely target for that desirable engine if one wanted to sell it. 

Once though one starts upgrading the internal parts, where does one stop? $ count of course but new thin-ring pistons, camshaft & lifters, maybe large valves, better springs....the list goes on. Your call on how far to go.
Bob Maag

jayb

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Re: What are Shelby engine values from an internal parts viewpoint?
« Reply #6 on: June 18, 2022, 11:07:44 AM »
Call me a heretic if you want, but I'd put all new internal components in that engine.  If you are going to be running it, and the idea of swapping in a different engine is not palatable, you are taking a risk by continuing to use the old, stressed stock components.  What will the engine be worth if it throws a rod out the side of the block?  Better to put in all new quality reciprocating components, plus cam, lifters, timing chain, etc.  Keep all the old components, and if necessary for value reasons the engine can be reassembled with them at a later date.
Jay Brown
- 1969 Mach 1, Drag Week 2005 Winner NA/BB, 511" FE (10.60s @ 129); Drag Week 2007 Runner-Up PA/BB, 490" Supercharged FE (9.35 @ 151)
- 1964 Ford Galaxie, Drag Week 2009 Winner Modified NA (9.50s @ 143), 585" SOHC
- 1969 Shelby Clone, Drag Week 2015 Winner Modified NA (Average 8.98 @ 149), 585" SOHC

   

shady

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Re: What are Shelby engine values from an internal parts viewpoint?
« Reply #7 on: June 18, 2022, 11:40:56 AM »
I wonder what your future plans for the car are. Sell it in 5 years, 10 years, never, pass it down? How original is the rest of the car? If the car is untouched (original paint, interior and such) and you owned it forever, myself, I would not touch it with future plans of selling it. If you were to keep it forever and pass it down when you move on, I'd rebuild it, drive it and enjoy the crap out of it. Rebuilding it will also give the next owner piece of mind.
What goes fast doesn't go fast long'
What goes fast takes your money with it.
So I'm slow & broke, what went wrong?
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cammerfe

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Re: What are Shelby engine values from an internal parts viewpoint?
« Reply #8 on: June 18, 2022, 10:00:14 PM »
From my own personal viewpoint, I've never cared much about future value. Both my '64 Custom/427 and my '65 'K' Mustang fastback were driven home from the dealer where I started doing 'improvements' of one sort or another. It's the immediate fun, and not some nebulous future value that seemed to have importance. Have I missed on future value from this attitude? Yup!!

The most egregious case came when I was offered a Falcon that had started life as Dave Lyall's FX car. It had passed through several sets of hands and one day I got a call that I could have if if I would come and pick it up. I couldn't forsee any likely personal use within a reasonable timeframe and didn't really have a convenient place to store it. I turned it down. The next time I saw it, it had a 'for sale' sign and an asking price of 300K. It sold within a matter of days.

I just shrugged my shoulders. Life goes on :-\ :)

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cleandan

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Re: What are Shelby engine values from an internal parts viewpoint?
« Reply #9 on: June 20, 2022, 09:10:03 AM »
Call me a heretic if you want, but I'd put all new internal components in that engine.  If you are going to be running it, and the idea of swapping in a different engine is not palatable, you are taking a risk by continuing to use the old, stressed stock components.  What will the engine be worth if it throws a rod out the side of the block?  Better to put in all new quality reciprocating components, plus cam, lifters, timing chain, etc.  Keep all the old components, and if necessary for value reasons the engine can be reassembled with them at a later date.

Jay, this is where my mind goes too.
This car will be driven, even more if things work and drive nicely.
When it is driven it will be driven hard....maybe not EVERY time from EVERY stoplight or down every on-ramp, but it will see 6000 rpm shifts and 100 mph runs if the opportunity presents itself.....specially 1st and 2nd gear runs.

This is really the push behind my question regarding internals.
The externals are a no-go concerning changes. This car is stock and the look will remain.
But if I can use better internals I think it is a good choice in the long run because it will likely not break in a detrimental manner causing the loss of those special external parts.

Anyway, with all the replies, I have not heard any saying changing the internals will hurt the value of the car overall.
If I keep the removed parts that value is retained for those who need a pure assembly if they so wich to return things to that state.

Thanks for the input.

JERICOGTX

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Re: What are Shelby engine values from an internal parts viewpoint?
« Reply #10 on: June 20, 2022, 03:00:00 PM »
As Jay says, anything that can't been seen externally, should be new parts. Why not make it the best possible engine it can be? Lighter pistons, better rods, more camshaft, more power...

ch3no2

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Re: What are Shelby engine values from an internal parts viewpoint?
« Reply #11 on: June 20, 2022, 03:57:55 PM »
I had a 66 289 hipo that I sold to the guy that owns GT 40 #1069 because it had the corrct date codes for his car. He only wanted the block,heads and timing cover as he was putting all new internals in it. I say if thats good enough for his GT 40 without affecting value it shold be fine for your car.