Cryogenic Processing

[fekbmax]

Anyone ever had any real world experience with this ? Ever had any engine parts done ?  or anyone that has done it.

[SSdynosaur]

I converted a wet magged FT 391 crank to to 2.200 rod pins x 2.00 wide leaving the mains at -.020 FE size for service in an NHRA SuperStock engine. I nitrided the crank and cryogenically processed the entire piece. It developed 3 major cracks after 36 quarter-mile runs and took up residence in a dumpster. My conclusion, if you begin with sub-standard material, no matter what band-aid you apply you still have a sub-standard piece in the final analysis. I understand that a number of racers and, especially, parts suppliers are touting the benefits of cryogenic processing but you need to ask yourself whether or not this is simply to enhance the bottom line. Scientifically, the theory seems rational but the treatment cost may be better invested in obtaining a, metalurgically, superior product in the beginning. Just relating personal experiences.

[Keith Stevens]

Well, I had have the process done to many barrels on weapons, brake drums and axle shafts. The barrels are much more accurate. The drums don't warp. It's also used in many processes for machine equipment so It does work.
Your likely hard used 391 truck crank wouldn't be representative of usual results.

[cammerfe]

Back in the distant past, when I worked at T&C Livonia, we were running constant cryogenic experiments on the valve body valves. There was a problem with the valves turning into little broach bars and damaging the aluminum of the valve bodies. I left while they were still experimenting, but, as I remember, they felt like they were making progress in achieving size stability after 'freezing' the samples they were working  on.

KS

[blykins]

I have factory rocker arms cryogenically treated and then REM polished when I do rules race engines.   It works. 

[wowens]

I've used it on transmission gears. They shift better and last longer but if you break a gear the transmission seems to explode.

[Nightmist66]

It has worked for us in the past. Unlike nitriding, the cryo penetrates the entire grain structure. Also, it does not change dimensions. If you were to nitride a crank or camshaft, they will generally warp a little bit and need to be straightened. Nitriding needs to be done before machining. Cryo can be done before or after. I just chose to do it before. The place I just visited will ask about the material and/or current hardness to get the proper process done. They charge by the pound. I just had a cast crank frozen that was 62lbs. It was around $142.

[RustyCrankshaft]

I've used it on a number of parts, but the most pronounced results have been (for me) on Honda 250R transmission gears and 7.3 PowerStroke rods. The Honda 2nd gear set is pretty weak and fails at higher HP, the cryo treated stock gears allowed you to reliably run 75 HP through them. When I first started messing with the 7.3PSD's there were no after market rods available and the stock forged rods were real iffy past 525hp give or take. Cryo treated ones I ran consistently at 600+ (RWHP) and had very good luck with. 

I have heard it helps with wear on stuff like valve train parts but I don't have much experience with cryo treating those parts.

[fekbmax]

Thanks for all the feedback guys.

[cleandan]

I cryo treated a set of "Super Duty" brake rotors I used on a 1999 Crown Victoria.
This was my daily driver. One of the clipers failed pretty early, around 25,000 miles, causing some issues, warpage to the disc, and basically burning down that wheels brake set up.

I shotgunned the whole system to prevent any further troubles.
I purchased brand new Raybestos brand "Super Duty" drilled and slotted rotors all around and had them treated.
I was skeptical but figured this would be a good test because I had a 1992 Crown Vic with the same brake set up that had regular issues with the brakes, warping discs, wearing out quickly, troublesome pads...lots of irritating little stuff.

The rotors were checked for trueness prior to the cryo treatment and then again after, and surprisingly only one rotor needed a very slight adjustment. The others were still true.

I installed the rotors and some performance pads and that Crown Vic would brake like crazy, with no fade, no pedal modulation, very little noise, and no trouble for the life of the discs.

I rand two are three sets of pads through that brake set up while not having to do anything to the rotors....They were checked, but nother needed to be done.

Eventually though, rust took its toll. The rear discs went first because the internal brake drum style emergency brakes are prone to giving troubles.
Then, about three years later the front discs went due to rust also.
At the time of treatment I did paint the discs with high temp paint to mitigate rust, but Minnesota winter salt eventually ruins everything made of metal.

In the end I thought the treatments did provide a longer life to the discs.

By the way, I initially chose to try this based on a friend who vintage races a Shelby GT350.
He used to go through two full sets of discs and drums per race season.
After cryo treatment of the drums and discs he would get three or four seasons out of one set.

It was mentioned above, and is worth repeating.
Cryo treatment to metals does change the grain structure and can help with stability, wear, and ultimate strength....but it will not make crappy metal into good metal.

[Barry_R]

Seems to still open a huge can of worms for something that has been around for decades.
Some race and machine tool guys swear by it.
Others just walk past the option and focus on other things.

When I asked about it (many years ago now) the metals guys at Federal-Mogul rolled their eyes and gave me a "not that stuff again" sort of response.
...and yet one of the cry companies references working with F-M on their web site.

[allrightmike]

Does cryogenic treating measurably change rockwell hardness in any metal found in an engine or transmission?