Static timing and total timing

[Kirk]

running static timing 12BTDC tried 14 but kicks back what should total timing be at 2800RPM
427 .015 bore with BBC pistons Aluminum edelbrock heads, Lunati cam
solid flat tappet
I290 E300
Duration @.050 I241 E252
Lift .525 I&E
Lash I.034 E.036 Hot
Dual point no vacuum advance
Thanks
Kirk

[frnkeore]

Do you have at least 40° marked on your dampener?

[My427stang]

The bottom line is that if you can't get the engine to start with the total you want, and it's not a battery, starter or cable problem, then the distributor doesn't have enough advance in the curve.

Always best to start with making sure your TDC is correct with a piston stop.  Once you are certain the balancer and pointer is telling you the truth, then you can recurve.

However, they usually do OK with 14-16, sometimes more, I would look close at the battery condition and size, the size of your cables, and don't overlook the solenoid to starter or the ground cable where it attaches.  Easy to lose amperage.  Also, an aftermarket mini starter can spin them over pretty darn good if you decide you want one

[Kirk]

40 is marked on dampener
will ck battery condition and starter draw.
Thanks
Kirk

[Rory428]

Has the distributor been recurved? If so, if it is "all in " by 2800, I have typically found my iron head FEs happiest with 36-38 degrees total timing,with the aluminum heads you may well be able to get by with less, maybe 34-36. Wondering about you valve lash numbers, I have never seen a FE solid cam that wanted that much valve lash, usually .028" is about as loose as I have seen. .034-.036 just seems excessive. Also seems pretty low on lift for that much duration at .050", is that a really old style cam grind?

[Faron]

If your combo kicks back you have a weak starter a weak battery bad cables / bad connections , or a combination of those , an FE ( other than the early pre 65 engines ) have a 184 tooth flywheel / flexplate lots of mechanical advantage ,and  although I never recomend it many racers use locked out timing , so they are starting with up lots more than 14 , as posted find true TDC on the balancer and be sure you weights arent sticking in the Dist , I never recomend under 2600 all in on a pump gas combo , pump does NOT like that fast of an advance and the springs used are so light that they may not pull back the advance weights if the dist isnt in perfect shape , most factory cast heads end up with totals in the 38-42 range , modern aluminum in the 32-36 range WITH THE CORRECT FUEL , If your trying to run highest possible hp numbers with pump, your playing with fire , err on the side of caution and be conservitive with your totals , BUT you MUST know your true settings finding TRUE TDC is the start or your chasing your tail and guessing wont end well 

[rockhouse66]

It is easy to determine if the initial timing is the cause of a hard start.  When you are having hard start (slow crank) issues, pull the power wire off the coil and try again.  If the engine spins, the cause of the hard start is the initial advance.   Beyond that, you can't just crank up the initial timing without also limiting the mechanical advance in the distributor.  They work together.

[Falcon67]

> although I never recomend it many racers use locked out timing ,

I always lock it out, it's just easier.  In fact, the door car just got a crank trigger setup so the distributor is only a spark router now.  There's no more curve to mess with LOL.  Put the motor on the compression stroke at the timing mark desired, line the crank pickup with the wheel magnet, point the rotor at #1 tower using a spare cap with holes drilled in it and light that sucker off.  Door car is set for 36 right now.  The 7AL3 has 25 degrees retard until 1300 RPM but it doesn't always seem to do that so once in a while it drags a bit before lighting off.  The Mallory that recentlt failed only had 10 retard, so it started all the time with at least 26 initial.  Seldom had any problems. I plan to update the car to use a crank switch plus an ignition on switch.  That is what I do in the dragster - spin the motor up first, then switch on the ignition.  A lot of racers do exactly that and it's less wear and tear on the starter if there is no retard provision in the ignition box.  The dragster is set at 26 degrees, no retard.  Both engines use PMGR starters that have the power to spin 12+ compression over against timing.

[Kirk]

Replacing starter with mini starter (powermaster 9506) information come with starter said ck for 1/16" between flex plate and pinion ideas on how to ck with C-6 closed bell housing?  Any suggestions on cable size to use with new starter?
Thanks
Kirk

[cammerfe]

I make my own from 'double aught' welding cable. Crimp on the ends and use shrink-tube to finish neatly.

KS

[Jb427]

I have that starter motor i found for my headers i am running fpa try y's for the extra ground height i had to take a little off the block just a fraction with a die grinder just near the lower bellhousing bolt boss is to keep it off the pipes as they are tucked in pretty tight to the block i also was playing with my timing on a fresh build 258 264 @50 solid roller i ended up with 18deg initial and 36 total all in by 2900 seems to like it there for my setup needs more fine tuning but it is close now. i am also running my battery in the trunk and i am running around a 16mm thick battery cable. i still have a little bit of run on but that is the carbs been adjusting them and it is very close now.

[Jim Comet]

On my 416, I have locked out timing set to 36deg at 2000 rpm's. I do have a start retard and have no issues starting with my oo welding cables and stock starter, even with 12 to 1 comp. I run an MSD distributor and pertronix digital ignition. Blair had me do a test which led me to bumping my timing from 32 to eventually 36deg. I had been setting my timing at idle up to 2000 rpms. Blair said to check it at 4000 rpms as some magnetic pickup ignitions retard timing above 3000 for some reason. Sure enough, I lose 4 degrees of timing above 3500 rpm's. So with my timing set at 36deg at 2000 I am actually running 32deg in my operating window of 5000 to my 6500 rpm shift point. Since I bumped my timing, my trap speeds have gone from 122-123 to 125-127 depending on weather. Jim