POP Rocker stands

[galaxiex]

I've seen it mentioned that Precision Oil Pumps has rocker stands that are cut (shortened) to fit with the raised mount pads on the TFS FE heads.


I can't find these cut stands on the POP website.

[My427stang]

Call him, he sells a set of .080 that will get you pretty close.  He is still working out a final number with all us fussy know-it-all builders LOL

[galaxiex]

Call him, he sells a set of .080 that will get you pretty close.  He is still working out a final number with all us fussy know-it-all builders LOL

Thanks!

I'll do that as I get closer to assembly day. (still a ways off)

[blykins]

He will make whatever you need for an additional $50.

Different rockers will require different cuts.  Factory rockers and T&D's will need about .200" cut off.  My rockers need about .080-.100". 

I suggested to Doug that instead of doing custom orders, just to mass produce a set of .200" cut stands and then customers can shim up as needed. 

If you plan on ordering a set, you'll need to know what rockers you will be using. 

[67xr7cat]

Get some 3/8" all thread.  Use it to mount the rocker arm shafts. with a thin nut below and one above to be able move the shaft up or down.  Use some light checker springs. Using this setup with a adjustable pushrod is an easy way to figure out the stand height and pushrod length. Once you determine the stand height just order them from POP or have a set cut down. This is the best way as a lot of variables can change the numbers from the expected results.

[67xr7cat]

He will make whatever you need for an additional $50.

Different rockers will require different cuts.  Factory rockers and T&D's will need about .200" cut off.  My rockers need about .080-.100". 

I suggested to Doug that instead of doing custom orders, just to mass produce a set of .200" cut stands and then customers can shim up as needed. 

If you plan on ordering a set, you'll need to know what rockers you will be using.

Shimming up a rocker system being retained by four 3/8" bolts just seems like asking for more unwanted movement with more surfaces sliding against each other and layers needing to conform to each other.   

[galaxiex]

Thanks for all the good info and ideas.

I currently have a complete set of Crane aluminum roller tip rockers with shafts, stands etc. Never run.
Not feeling good about them since I changed direction with the engine build.

I now have a custom hyd roller and Morel lifters from Brent (Thanks Brent )

Have TFS-5641T703-C00 heads for this 428 build. (previously had Edelbrock RPM, sold them)

If anyone can set my mind at ease on using the Crane rocker setup I'll keep and use them.

Otherwise, I'll sell the Crane stuff and I'm open to suggestions for rockers for this build.

Have not mocked up the top of the engine yet, that is some months away.
Short block is assembled.

Street cruiser, no racing but I may take it to the 1/4 to see what it will do.

More info....

1966 Galaxie 500XL H/T. C6 with wide ratio gear set and Gear Vendors O/D.
3.70 gears
Hooker 6130 long tubes.
61 Ford 3X2 manifold extensively ported and welded on to match the TFS heads.
Throttle bores hogged out to 45mm.
FITech 3X2 fuel injection.
factory 428 crank .020 .020
factory rods with ARP 2000 bolts
Speed Pro .040 over forged dished pistons (ya I know, old school)

Old pic of the short block with one ED head still on it...

[blykins]

He will make whatever you need for an additional $50.

Different rockers will require different cuts.  Factory rockers and T&D's will need about .200" cut off.  My rockers need about .080-.100". 

I suggested to Doug that instead of doing custom orders, just to mass produce a set of .200" cut stands and then customers can shim up as needed. 

If you plan on ordering a set, you'll need to know what rockers you will be using.

Shimming up a rocker system being retained by four 3/8" bolts just seems like asking for more unwanted movement with more surfaces sliding against each other and layers needing to conform to each other.

When the stands need to be raised there is no other choice. 

It may "seem" bad, but in reality it works quite well.  Even Jesel and T&D on their very high end rocker systems have 3/8" bolts to hold the rocker mounting bar down to the sub plate and they supply a bag of shims to raise the stands if necessary.  I've done that very thing on applications where the spring pressures are up over 1200 lbs. 

In most cases with factory heads, most of your rocker systems need to be shimmed up anyway.  Factory rockers often need to be raised by .100" or more in order to perfect the geometry and complete Harland Sharp rocker systems often have to be shimmed up.  I've found that you can very seldom set a rocker system down on an FE without having to adjust the stand height either up or down.

It's common place and that's why I supply one piece laser cut shims in different thicknesses that support the entire system from end stand to end stand.

[blykins]

Thanks for all the good info and ideas.

I currently have a complete set of Crane aluminum roller tip rockers with shafts, stands etc. Never run.
Not feeling good about them since I changed direction with the engine build.

I now have a custom hyd roller and Morel lifters from Brent (Thanks Brent )

Have TFS-5641T703-C00 heads for this 428 build. (previously had Edelbrock RPM, sold them)

If anyone can set my mind at ease on using the Crane rocker setup I'll keep and use them.

Otherwise, I'll sell the Crane stuff and I'm open to suggestions for rockers for this build.

Have not mocked up the top of the engine yet, that is some months away.
Short block is assembled.

Street cruiser, no racing but I may take it to the 1/4 to see what it will do.

More info....

1966 Galaxie 500XL H/T. C6 with wide ratio gear set and Gear Vendors O/D.
3.70 gears
Hooker 6130 long tubes.
61 Ford 3X2 manifold extensively ported and welded on to match the TFS heads.
Throttle bores hogged out to 45mm.
FITech 3X2 fuel injection.
factory 428 crank .020 .020
factory rods with ARP 2000 bolts
Speed Pro .040 over forged dished pistons (ya I know, old school)

Old pic of the short block with one ED head still on it...

I have never used the Crane setup but I don't see why it won't work with some careful geometry checking.

BTW, if you're going to sell anything and buy new, I'd get rid of those factory rods.   

[67xr7cat]

Well if it works all that matters. Ford did put the rocker tins under them too. Still don't like it from a technical standpoint, but don't like the whole 4 bolt stilts arrangement either... 

[galaxiex]

I have never used the Crane setup but I don't see why it won't work with some careful geometry checking.

BTW, if you're going to sell anything and buy new, I'd get rid of those factory rods.   

Ok, for now I'll tentatively keep the Crane setup...

I have changed directions on this build quite a few times....


What I'd "really like" is a BBM iron block with stroker etc, etc... $$$$


I have seriously considered laying down the cash for a complete stroker bottom end for this 428,
but the .040 overbore has me worried...


Do the stroker kits put more stress on the cyl walls?


I did check for wall thickness (drill bit test) a long time ago, and recall it was "ok",
but it's never been sonic tested.


I bought the block used at .030 over. It had been raced and cyl's notched for bigger valves.


The machine shop I bought it from (since closed) built lots of FE's and this block came from one of their customers.
He raced it with a solid cam (lifter galleys plugged) and the aforementioned valve notches.
I assume he had 427 heads on it.


I suggested to the shop (at the time) that we sonic check it but they said it would be ok.
They bored/honed it to .040 and decked it, also line bore was supposedly checked and deemed good.


I figured if it had been beat on at .030 and held up, .040 "should be" ok.....?


Opinions?


Edit; It is a genuwine 428 block, has the "428" in the bottom of the water jacket, and a "C" scratch on the rear bulkhead.
I was told it came from a 69 Mustang CJ.


8J5 date code  so Sept 5 68

[My427stang]

I had a set of Crane in 2006 when I did my 489, they a new full set that had just came out and a very affordable and complete kit.  No amount of realistic shimming could get me there with Edelbrock heads and they pushed the pushrods way out toward the intake manifold that hurt clearance.

If they are that style, I was not too happy.

[galaxiex]

I had a set of Crane in 2006 when I did my 489, they a new full set that had just came out and a very affordable and complete kit.  No amount of realistic shimming could get me there with Edelbrock heads and they pushed the pushrods way out toward the intake manifold that hurt clearance.

If they are that style, I was not too happy.

I have the Crane set 34791-1


I did have these mocked up on the Edel heads some time ago.
The geometry looked ok but ya, pushrod to intake clearance may have been an issue.

[67xr7cat]

GalaxieX  I'd put it together and run it.  If it was fine at .030", should be fine at .040".  Keep in mind it is only another .005" off the bore wall thickness.  Most important part of engine building is machine work and attention to detail. Is all too easy to keep changing the combo which is a good way of never getting any place and end up with a pile of parts and a lightened wallet.  Finish it up and get it running.  If you want more worry about that then. With what you have it should run good on the street and be lots of fun. 

[galaxiex]

GalaxieX  I'd put it together and run it.  If it was fine at .030", should be fine at .040".  Keep in mind it is only another .005" off the bore wall thickness.  Most important part of engine building is machine work and attention to detail. Is all too easy to keep changing the combo which is a good way of never getting any place and end up with a pile of parts and a lightened wallet.  Finish it up and get it running.  If you want more worry about that then. With what you have it should run good on the street and be lots of fun. 

Well that is just eminently sensible and practical advice. 👍

FWIW the stock rods have been beam polished, magged, resized big end, new pin bushings and balanced along with the reciprocating assembly.
I didn’t mention before but it’s a 1U crank.