My 427 SOHC Build..... Finally the time has come!

[cobracammer]

OK...  IM EXCITED...maybe...

I went into the garage and decided I want TDC and nothing less....  My mistake during the build.....  I will NEVER make that mistake again.

ok  So first things first.....  Since the engine has run now (about 30 minuts this weekend....  see shotty video), the engine turns clockwise and counterclockwise (just about the same resistance either direction)  I guess it is well oiled now!

This is where I HOPE i am right!...  I found the compression stroke again.  As soon as I got the burst of air, I put the piston stop in.  Then I carefully turned the engine over until I touched the piston stop....  Now this is "some degree before TDC.  I went under the car and cleaned the balancer thoroughly.  Then I put a strip of blue painters take on the balancer (On the bottom) and a piece of tape wrapped around the (tortion?) bar.  On the tortion bar, I drew an arrow (my make shift pointer).  On the balancer, and aligned with the arrow on the tortion bar, I drew a line (marking some degree before TDC)....

NOW, since I cannot continue turning the engine clockwise due to the piston stop, I rotated the engine counterclockwise  all the way around until I reached the piston stop again.....  ((I am guessing that this would be some degree ATDC on intake stroke (or charge stroke).  now that I reached the piston stop again, I drew a line on the painters tape, again, aligning with my arrow on the tortion bar.

Now, I went up and took out the piston stop.... and turning the engine clockwise again, I was heading into the comppression stroke.  Once I reached my (Some degree before TDC) line again, I saw that there was about 1.5 inches before my next line.  The exact center of these 2 lines was my TDC.........  OH GOD please tell me I am right.  Now, I turned the engine clockwise a little more (until I was exactly between these 2 lines on the painters tape, and went up to look at what my REAL timing pointer said on the timing tape I put on with my father.    It said 10 degrees BTDC...  So I was 10 degrees off on my real pointer.

OK....  now for a final note.  Since previously I was told that I should be at about 12-14 degrees BDTC to start, last weekend I rotated the engine so that my (now found to be incorrect) timing tape to 13 degrees BTDC and made sure my # 1 spark plug wire was aligned with the rotar.  That technicallly put me 23 degrees off now in total correct?  I am slowlly starting to understand the 60 degrees I was seeing.
I am going to order a new timing tape (assuming you guys tell me I am correct) and make sure I now have TDC marked exact!

Also, since I have the engine at exactly TDC, I decided to tackle the distributor.  Since it hits "this and that, I pullled it up a little until I could move the gears to point at approx cylinder 2 (I will explain why 2 and not 1 in a second).  Once I had it back in and sitting right, I turned the housing a little until I had the rotar point pointing right at a "tit" on the distributor cap.  This "tit" was now where my number #1 plug wire went... and I went around in a counterclockwise rotation putting the rest of the wires on correctly.

Now, I put rotar pointing to the #2 cylinder, because if I pointed it at #1, the cap would not fit back on due to the water neck flange.  Now, once I get the timing tape on, I will be able to advance the distributor freely to get to 30 degrees BTDC at 3000 RPM.

[country63sedan]

I would prefer you use a pointer across the tape as opposed to "eyeballing" at an arrow on the sway bar. But yes, you have now found tdc.     Make sure you get a tape for the correct diameter damper. Then get a video of this bruiser running good without the smoke and steam (tire smoke is ok). Later, Travis

[cjshaker]

If I'm reading this correctly, you are not 23* off in total. If you've determined that the balancer was reading 10* off, advanced, the 13* initial that you previously had set, which was determined to be wrong, you were at 3* initial in reality. You still want that 13* initial, so subtracting the 10* that it was reading advanced, it should have been at 23* BTDC to be "correct" at 13*. When it would have gone to full advance of 30* at 3000 rpms, assuming you're reading this on the damper, it would have actually been 20* (the initial is included in that damper reading when it's running)....still the original mistake of 10* reading to far advanced. For it to be reading 60*, somehow the distributor was still advancing to an actual 50*.

That is if I'm reading what you did correctly

Edit: And I asked this before but I can't remember your answer, what damper do you have? Because the ATI dampers are known for being 9* off, which seems to line up with how much yours is off.

[cobracammer]

Hey Doug,

ok Yesterday night, where my exact TDC was, my balancer timing tape read 10 degreed BTDC. 

Last week, as I thought I had the timing tape installed with TDC on TDC, I then rotated the engine to 13 degrees BTDC and adjusted the distributor.  If you take into account that I was already 10 degrees off and then I rotated the engine another 13 degrees, I was at a total of 23 degrees BTDC (when I thought I was at 13 degrees according to the timing tape I installed.

Now that being said, since I am supposed to be at 13 degrees BTDC to start, that still left me 10 degrees off (Because with the old timing tape, when I rotated it to 13 degrees BTDC for the initial fire-up, I was really at 23 degrees BTDC.

Now, when my wife turned the key (at the incorrect 23 degrees BTDC, and it didn't start, I rotated the distributor clockwise (which was putting me firing at even further BTDC).  So when the timing light was showing 60 degrees BTDC, assuming I was 10 degrees off to start (Which that would now really be 50 degrees BTDC), and taking into account the 13 degrees initial I turned it to adjust the distributor for initial fire up (which would then be 37 degrees BTDC with the timing light) and the clockwise turn I did to get it to fire up (which seeing how quickly the degrees change with the timing light when you turn the distributor... would probably have put me at 14 or 13 degrees BTDC)

I guess from here, since now I am 100% sure of TDC and also 100% sure on the cam timing, we can get a better picture of whats going on if it does not start again, or it starts but the timing is way off...

Also, the balancer is a pioneer race balancer ( summitracing)

[cobracammer]

Hey Jay.......

Can you take one more look at the bottom picture?  When we discussed this earlier (a few months ago), I think you said that I should go with the "Black" advance stop bushing as well as the lighter springs.  The way I currently have the distributor set up is letter "E" below.....  Which is a "black stop bushing" in combination with the "Light blue spring" and a "light silver spring".  I just want to double check on this so I can mark it off the list of possible culprits..     Also, just to double check (and sorry if you are repeating it again), but with this setup, I am still expecting to see the timing stop at about 32 degrees (or there about ) at 3000 RPM's?  I only ask because looking at the chart below, It looks like the stop bushing would cause the timing to stop at about 17 degrees at 2000 RPM?  hahaha  Or as usual am I reading it wrong?   Also, does it look like I should be using the "Red" bushing to get up around 30 degrees advance before it stops?


Im just thinking out loud, but also since I am using the lightest springs, im advancing at really low RPM's, so it would make sense that I had the chase RPM's by turning the distributor clockwise while someone was cranking the engine (60 degrees timing while at idle) just to keep it running?

(I just got off the phone with MSD, and he said that the instructions (graphs below ) are slightly incorrect.... 1st), Anywhere there is a "blue spring listed, it should say "Medium" and not "Light" as the blue springs are slightly heavier that the "light" silver springs, but less heavy than the 2 heaviest Silver springs.

2nd)  The graphs below are for carburetor applications only (not for EFI apparently?)....  just wanted to throw this out there as its more "knowledge" from tech support.  LOL

I explained to him that I want total timing at about 30 to 32 degrees BTDC, and initial (idle) timing about 13 to 14 degrees BTDC.  He said that given this information, I should be using the "Blue" stop bushing, but would not be able to tell me what spring combination.  He stated that I should leave the 2 heavy silver springs (which came on the distributor when I purchased), time the engine at 3000 RPM, and see if I need to swap springs, or if this works.  If not, then try 1 heavy silver and 1 medium blue....  time the engine again at 3000 RPM... and so on and so on until I am getting the roughly 30 degrees total timing I am looking for.  Thoughts on this?  I have learned to be cautious of what Tech support says nowadays.


Thanks again.....  and we are almost there  lol

[jayb]

I think you've got that right, Jason.  The advance in the distributor, shown in the MSD charts, does not include your initial advance.  So, if you set your initial advance at 14 degrees BTDC, then when the centrifugal advance in the distributor comes in, you will have an additional 17 degrees, for a total of 31.  I usually end up at 30 or 32 degrees of advance with the SOHC.  The light silver spring and light blue spring together bring all the advance in by about 3200 RPM.

[cobracammer]

Thanks Jay.  I don't know why tech support (this time MSD) is never correct  LOL  I guess he would have been correct if the charts included initial timing  LOL 

[blykins]

Each individual bushing can either reduce or increase travel, thus reducing or delaying max advance.

[cobracammer]

Hey Brent,

Yea I was just reading the instructions....

The black bushing (the one I have installed currently) = 18 degrees

Blue Bushing (the one I took off - its the one that comes installed on the distributor out of the box) = 21 degrees

Silver Bushing = 25 Degrees

Red Bushing = 28 degrees

I guess what was confusing me (as its not stated in the instructions) is what Jay just mentioned....  the graphs above with the spring/ bushing combinations do not take into account initial timing.  I can understand just given the variation by application, but for beginners (like me), a note in the instructions saying so would be helpful.

OK so with my distributor the way its currently set up (1 light silver spring / 1 Medium Blue spring- and the Black stop bushing), in conjunction with my estimate of 14 degrees initial timing (This would be Figure "E" above)...

Centrifugal advance seems to kick in at about 1300 RPM (Slightly above the 1000-1100 RPM Idle), and including my 14 degrees initial timing, the "Black stop bushing" should stop centrifugal advance at about 2000 RPM (Not 3000 RPM as I have been assuming) at 32 degrees total timing.  Since the black stop bushing ends centrifugal advance at 2000 RPM's, total timing should stay at about 32 degrees BTDC up through the RPM range above 2000 RPM's.

I think I have a handle on this now.  I THINK  LOL

[cobracammer]

Oil filter inspection after breakin:

http://youtu.be/aAeUjf1MFhM

[blykins]

Of course I'm not there, but it appears to be ok from the video.  Best way to do it is take a razor blade or knife and cut around the top and bottom circumference of the filter, separating the element from the canister.  The element will then stretch out in one long piece, like an accordion. 

You'll see some pieces of grit, maybe a piece of aluminum or two.  It's hard to not have some aluminum with brand new aluminum heads, a brand new aluminum block, etc. 

The bottom of the filter will tell a little tale as well, the stuff that's laying in the bottom when you pull the element cartridge out. 

I think you're in good shape. 

[cobracammer]

Will do. Botton of the canister has more of the fine grit. I will cut the filter and expand it to see.  I will inspect the filter the first 500 miles as well. Purchased 2 more of the moroso filters to do so

Ill take some pictures of the filter element cut out

[cobracammer]

Ok. Pictures of the filter pulled out and expanded. So weird to see the grit, but you really cant feel it with your fingers

[blykins]

I don't really see anything that looks like bearing material or anything going south, but there's just a lot of trash in there.   Need to do more cleaning on your next one. 

[blykins]

Is any of that copper colored?