Weight savings for a 64.5 mustang....

[Joey120373]

I heard someone say that HP is much cheaper than carbon fiber, but I still think the lighter the better.

Though I’m still in the daydreaming phase of rebuilding my mustang, I figure it’s still a good idea to trim weight where I can and within reason. For instance, upgrading the brakes gave me the opportunity to buy some willwood dynalite stuff, as well as an aluminum master cylinder. Win win there, and for not a while lot more coin than OEM iron stuff.

So on the engine side of things, aluminum heads, intake and water pump are a given.
But I am wondering how much weight can be saved by going to an aluminum block (302) ? I’m guessing, based on the internet, that it’s somewhere in the neighborhood of 60-90 pounds?
I’ve also read that the stock 302 crank is pretty light, and that aftermarket cranks tend to be heavier, but looking at some of the scalloped higher end ultra light forged crank offerings I have a hard time believing that there can’t be some weight savings there. And ( still daydreaming here ) getting a super light weight rotating assembly might be a whole lot of fun.

So has anyone here ever built up a light weight 302 based engine, and did you weigh it compaired to a stock, iron everything motor?

[hbstang]

is this for a drag car road race or what?what is your weight goal?you could shave at least 150 pounds off a stock 302 engine,but its not going to be cheap with aluminum block etc.i see people go this route,and then add a/c power steering and brakes which defeats the purpose.
theres a lot to be saved on the interior and saftey as well.chromoly roll cage vs mild steel.composite windows vs stock glass,lite weight seats,remove radio heater etc.it can be never ending.ultra lite weight batteries etc.
if you want to see the extreme weight loss,see what the top sprint cars do.they shave the motor mount bosses off an aluminum block!

[rockhouse66]

What transmission?  Aluminum toploader case saves quite a bit of weight.

[frnkeore]

Don't forget about a aluminum 3rd member and housing, with gun drilled axles.

Titanium headers and exhaust system would also be a must.

A all aluminum engine could get down to about 350 lb, that is what Fords, push rod, Indy engine weighed, including it's dry sump system.

The old saying, "Speed costs money. How fast do you want to go", will ALWAYS apply.

[plovett]

I don't know about the specific engine weights, but since a low deck SBF is so small anyway, I don't think the switch from an iron block to aluminum would save a huge amount.   

On a tall deck SBF or a big block the weight savings would be greater.

Also forged, not cast, aluminum wheels can save a bunch of weight.  And it's rotating weight.

paul

[plovett]

Tony DeFeo (Uncle Tony's Garage) is a weight saving nut.   You might watch some of his Youtube videos on it.

paul

[JERICOGTX]

What ever you do, don't use a Fat Man Fab front suspension kit. A Counterweight on a Forklift weighs less.

[gt350hr]

   Joey120373,
     I have been down this road before. First replace all unimportant steel fasteners with aluminum. This would be fender bolts , window retaining bolts and anything "non structural" . Aluminum bolts are lighter and cheaper than Ti bolts.
   The "S302" block I have weighs 90 lbs and is 30-70 lbs lighter than a stock or aftermarket block BUT it was several thousand dollars MORE and it WILL NOT make as much power because the bores do not stay round as the block warms up. I've run a mag third member and aluminum spool , "mag" wheels , aluminum lug nuts , and these "unsprung" parts have little affect. In my case a 50lb reduction in "driver weight" would be a BIG gain!!!!

[Mbowling]

I’m not sure on a early mustang  although I do have a nice all stock 66 coupe...
But I can speak to weight savings. I had dirt track 410” wing sprint cars for many years back when there was no weight rule like today where it is 1425 with driver.  Every piece and I mean every bolt was massaged in some way to make it lighter.  There is no end to it.

[Gaugster]

They make composite  leaf spings that are lighter than stock or mono springs.

[cjshaker]

In my case a 50lb reduction in "driver weight" would be a BIG gain!!!!

LOL, I always avoid this subject, but since it was brought up...
I always grin when I see long threads on weight loss for performance reasons....only to see a 300 lb driver.  Seems nobody wants to go to THAT extreme to gain some weight savings..lol  At 140 lbs, I figure I already have a .10 ET advantage on most people..lol

One hint; if you have a fold down rear seat, you can save a quick and easy 50+ pounds by ditching it and either making it a 2 seater or putting in a basic rear seat. An aluminum radiator is another easy weight loss. Fiberglass hood and bumpers is another easy savings. Factory Mustang bumpers are worthless for protection anyway, especially in the front.

[Joey120373]

is this for a drag car road race or what?what is your weight goal?you could shave at least 150 pounds off a stock 302 engine,but its not going to be cheap with aluminum block etc.i see people go this route,and then add a/c power steering and brakes which defeats the purpose.
theres a lot to be saved on the interior and saftey as well.chromoly roll cage vs mild steel.composite windows vs stock glass,lite weight seats,remove radio heater etc.it can be never ending.ultra lite weight batteries etc.
if you want to see the extreme weight loss,see what the top sprint cars do.they shave the motor mount bosses off an aluminum block!

This will be a road cruising daily driver. Might take it to the drag strip on occasion. So not going overboard on power or weight savings. It may get A/C at some point. But manual brakes and steering for now. subframe stiffeners and upgraded suspension front and rear are in the works.
Not going for the end all be all stripped down lightest thing ever, but looking for weight Gaines wherever I can get them without an astronomical budget.
The aluminum block is a big chunk of cash for not a whole lot of weight savings, but it’s not out of the picture, the Man-o-war alloy block costs about 3K more than the iron block, all to save 60-90 pounds.

However, an aluminum headed stock block 347 can get pretty good power, still pretty light and way cheaper.

[Joey120373]

What transmission?  Aluminum toploader case saves quite a bit of weight.

Yea, that’s where I’m conflicted. I have a T-56 that is essentially free. It’s a 130-135 pound trans.
Where something like a T5 is 75 pounds and still gets me an overdrive. The new Tremec 5 speed would be better suited to the power level in at and save a bunch of weight over the T-56. And if I were ok with only a 4 speed the top loader would be the best I imagine.

But I’ve got a T-56....... kinda want to use it even though it’s a good 55-69 pounds heavier...

[Joey120373]

I don't know about the specific engine weights, but since a low deck SBF is so small anyway, I don't think the switch from an iron block to aluminum would save a huge amount.   

On a tall deck SBF or a big block the weight savings would be greater.

Also forged, not cast, aluminum wheels can save a bunch of weight.  And it's rotating weight.

paul

Yea, agree on all points. The little 302 just doesn’t gain as much in the Jenny craig department when compared to most other motors. Forged wheels are are on the list, as well as an aluminum third member. I didn’t know about gun drilled axles and alloy housings though, have to look into that.

[Joey120373]

Tony DeFeo (Uncle Tony's Garage) is a weight saving nut.   You might watch some of his Youtube videos on it.

paul

Ha! That’s where I really got to thinking about it, that Swiss cheese car of his is really cool, not what I’m going for but I’ll bet that thing will be all kinds of fun.