Ford MG9394 Bellhousing

[SSdynosaur]

Yes. I can confirm that '58 T-bird definitely had a 3-on-the-tree available, at least with the 352 FE engine. I don't know of availability with the MEL engine.

[Rory428]

59 Tbird also was available with a 3 speed manual, no idea how common they are. I saw such a car at a local informal car gathering in late July last year.  352 with a 3 speed manual, with a column shifter. I recall, I believe on the other FE board, one of the guys converted his 1960, I think, Thunderbird, from a 3 speed to a 4 speed Toploader. I have to think there are not many looking for Squarebird clutch linkage, but for those that are, I imagine finding that stuff would feel like winning the lottery.

[TomP]

There was a 430 three speed manual TBird for sale in England in a Custom Car magazine ad in the late 90's. Cheap too.

[427John]

Probably Johnny Beauchamp's Inaugural 59 Daytona Holman Moody built 430 Bird  ,those Holman Moody racers were manual.

[gwingard]

Wow, what great responses to my query.  To answer 427John's question, I'm running a Ram 1518 flywheel and a McLeod 75212 Street Pro clutch and pressure plate.  My trans is an HEH D toploader.  Sorry that I failed to recognize the date codes when I did the work on the bellhousing but my curiosity about all this isn't strong enough to make me take it all back apart to look!  I had some some issues at the time with not having enough throw out bearing free play but I believe that was due to a defective pressure plate that McLeod replaced for me.  I remember doing a lot of measurements from the engine side of the bell to the trans mount side but sadly I failed to make note of it.  As I recall the MG9394 bell was on the order of .400 longer.  Relocating the lever fulcrum wasn't a big deal as there was plenty of meat in there to work with.  As I also recall, the solid lifter engine core I used in this build has a C5 date code so I guess that the bell I got with the core was from an earlier vehicle.  The stock bell housing in my '64 Merc was a C3AA6394 A and lacked clearance for the McLeod  pressure plate.  I attempted to clearance the original bell but there wasn't quite enough meat on the bones and wound up grinding through it.  I guess it was just plain luck that I had the MG9394 lying around and that it could be made to fit.  Thanks to everyone for all the thoughtful input. 

[gwingard]

Opps, fat fingered the difference in length of the bellhousings.  I think it was .0400. 

[427John]

So your saying the earlier MG bell was deeper than the C3AA?I was always under the assumption that the car bells were shallower,but now it sounds like early ones weren't,I guess I need to measure,I've got examples of the MG,4848339,and the C3AA,as well as the later C5AA & C6OA.Maybe the earlier cars used a longer input shaft on the trans like the later small block transmissions.

[thatdarncat]

Sounds like there’s an opportunity for someone to write “The Great FE Bellhousing Comparo” book 

[427John]

Sounds like there’s an opportunity for someone to write “The Great FE Bellhousing Comparo” book 

I don't know if there is enough to fill a book,maybe a slightly longer than normal post.

[427John]

Ok did some quick measuring on the bells by placing the block mounting surface flat on the floor and measuring from the floor up to the trans mounting surface and here are the results:
      MG 6394  deep starter pocket early narrow ford bolt pattern ~6.5" deep uses early style leather fork boot with metal clips
      4848339  deep starter pocket early narrow ford bolt pattern ~6.5" deep uses early style leather fork boot with metal clips
C3AA 6394 A  deep starter pocket early narrow ford bolt pattern ~6.5" deep this bell and later uses rubber fork boot
C5AA 6394 A shallow starter pocket late wide ford bolt pattern ~ 6.5 " deep identical to C6OA-D except that bellhousing mount bellcrank ball stud boss is intact and drilled and tapped for use on 65 and later Galaxies.
C6OA-D mine is unavailable due to being on car but is identical to C5AA-A except that bellhousing mount bellcrank ball stud boss is partially milled away for use in Mustang/Cougar and Fairlane/Comet with block mounted bellcrank ball stud.
C5TA 7505 A  shallow starter pocket late wide ford bolt pattern ~ 6.75 deep
  So it looks like the cars used the shallow bell from the beginning in 58.
Also the the centerforce PP clearance problem on my C3AA bell wasn't in the area of the hump on the C5AA/C6OA bells but in the area of where the clutch fork passes thru,gwnigard was your Mcleod PP an 11.5/12"?If so did it clear the MG bell without grinding?

[427John]

One other casting for early use that I've seen pictures of that has at least 2 different casting numbers one marked CAK 6394 A ,the other marked CRAK 6394 A appear to be a casting with accommodation for the clutch fork hole and pivot on either side.The pictures of the one marked CAK had the fork hole and fulcrum on the driver side and the one marked CRAK had the fork hole and fulcrum on the pass. side,possibly the meaning of the R in the casting was for right?Also the casting dates start with 8 maybe 58 since its early bolt pattern and deep starter pocket.Anybody know of an app,from that era (late 50's)that would use a pass. side mounted clutch linkage?UK or Australia?Did any rigs over or down there use FE's?Anyone wanting to see a pic of the CRAK bell can view it on mustangtek.com on their bellhousings tab down towards the bottom of the list.The pics I saw of the CAK bell on a google search showed the inside where you could clearly see the bosses for the fulcrum mount on both sides. I would link the pics here if I knew how.

[thatdarncat]

One other casting for early use that I've seen pictures of that has at least 2 different casting numbers one marked CAK 6394 A ,the other marked CRAK 6394 A appear to be a casting with accommodation for the clutch fork hole and pivot on either side.The pictures of the one marked CAK had the fork hole and fulcrum on the driver side and the one marked CRAK had the fork hole and fulcrum on the pass. side,possibly the meaning of the R in the casting was for right?Also the casting dates start with 8 maybe 58 since its early bolt pattern and deep starter pocket.Anybody know of an app,from that era (late 50's)that would use a pass. side mounted clutch linkage?UK or Australia?Did any rigs over or down there use FE's?Anyone wanting to see a pic of the CRAK bell can view it on mustangtek.com on their bellhousings tab down towards the bottom of the list.The pics I saw of the CAK bell on a google search showed the inside where you could clearly see the bosses for the fulcrum mount on both sides. I would link the pics here if I knew how.

Link to the discussion and pictures of the CAK-6394-A bellhousing:

https://www.fordmuscleforums.com/threads/bellhousing-id.580578/

[427John]

Thanks Kevin,hopefully someone will know what the the use of the pass. side clutch linkage is.

[427John]

No guesses as to the reason for a late 50's FE bellhousing with right side clutch linkage?It also has external ribbing so maybe a HD application?Anybody know of any FE powered agricultural equipment from that era,bale wagon, combine something else.

[Rory428]

427John, do you have any photos of the FE bellhousing with right side clutch linkage? I have never heard of such a thing, although many of the Australian 59 style "Tank" Fairlanes had 332s, although I didn`t know if they were available with a manual transmission. I would have to think trying to engineer a clutch fork setup to fit past the long shaft starter motor, not to mention the RHD steering box would be rather challenging, to say the least.