Dilemma on 69 Fairlane engine?

[FESCJ]

Hey folks, building a 69 Fairlane Cobra formal roof clone. I have a 428 that was built for another car; intended engine mission has changed. I'll list out engine/car specs and we can go from there.

1. First off car; 69 Fairlane formal roof, C6 auto basically stock, 3.89 rear. Probably my last resto due to health.

2. Engine; 428 service block .030 over, Lemans rods, Scat crank, Probe pistons, XE274 Cam, C6AE-R heads with appropriate CJ mods including drilled for 16 bolts. Milodon deep sump pan, Holley street Dominator intake, 3310-1 Holley 780........which I really don't care for. Oh, forgot, 75 cc chambers in heads, Probe pistons -16 cc version. Was suppose to be around 9.6:1 compression.

3. This engine was built nearly ten years ago for a 69 Mustang 4spd car with 4.30 rear. As you can tell by date, life, health and a thousand other things can get in the way.

4. New mission with regard to Fairlane; car must behave.......absolutely must! With my health, wife will probably be driving more than myself. Good idle a must, decent overall manners a must, will have cast iron exhaust manifolds (CJ) and full exhaust. Power brakes a must, etc.

5. I realize what I am giving up here.......at least to an extent to how it was built. Things just change, I need this. I am concerned about cam? I think it will be lopey? I think idle quality will be sacrificed. I am not as concerned about current intake, but wonder if I don't gain anything from something like an Edelbrock RPM?

6. Would appreciate any thoughts on this build? I'd rather make changes now than later.

7. I appreciate this forum very much! Thanks for any opinions, advice, etc!

Brian N
Groveport, Ohio

[jayb]

That Holley intake is a really good one, but you will pick up some midrange torque with a Performer RPM.  If you don't expect to see lots of excursions past 4500 RPM, I think the Performer RPM would be a better fit.

Does your Holley 780 carb have the provisions for the factory Ford kickdown linkage?  If not, I'd try to scrounge that up, would make a big difference in an automatic car...

[plovett]

Sorry about your health troubles.   It makes it much harder.

I don't think that cam is too radical.   It will have a lope, but low end will be okay with a higher than stock stall speed like 2500 rpm or so.  So I think it would be "okay" in that case.  With a stockish stall convertor I think I might pick a smaller cam.  I think a milder cam with different spec's might be better if you are up for a cam change.  Your compression ratio does seem to be in the 9.6 range or a little higher depending on how far in the hole your piston is.   No doubt a custom cam is best, but something like the old Crane HMV 272 might be good.  It is 216/228 degrees with a 112 LSA.   I think it would be okay with premium pump gas.   

I think Jay's recommendation of the Edelbrock RPM intake is right on the money.  And I think your Holley 3310-1 carb is one of the best carb's ever made.  I'd consider making sure it is tuned right before giving up on it.   

JMO,

paulie

[plovett]

After reading your post again, I feel a little more strongly that a cam change is in order.  I still don't know your stall speed, but it sounds like it won't be too far from stock.  And given your fairly mild compression ratio, you can afford to step down in cam size and still run pump gas, with better street manners. 

JMO,

paulie

[mbrunson427]

From another formal roof fan...here is a photo I came across online the other day, I had sent it to my dad. We have a '69 428 Fairlane sitting in the barn waiting for it's day. Ours came with the silver rally wheels but I prefer the dog dish on that car.

[My427stang]

A cam swap would make a world of difference and you have a good set up to go milder. The Edelbrock rpm would be icing on the cake but I don’t even think it’s needed if you pick a cam right

Happy to help if you need it, But if it’s really going to be mama and a cruiser and keep overlap under 50 and shorten up duration

[FESCJ]

I truly appreciate all of the responses! Big time kudos to Jay for such a nice forum! Yes, the health issues suck, but, I'm still standing. I will stand for as long as I can, then, the wife takes over! I honestly wasn't super concerned about the intake, but I thought I'd put it out there under the circumstances of this build. I'm good with running it. I was more concerned about the cam and overall drivability. You have all confirmed my suspicions especially in conjunction with the CJ manifolds less headers.

The C6 that I have for this car is a good but stock rebuild. I was thinking shift kit and a street style convertor in the 2400 stall range? Really nothing super fancy, just good reliable stuff. The carb I guess is decent. It's an off the shelf 3310-1 that was previously installed on an LS-6 454 El Camino. The guy who set it up for me did it square, 74 jets all around. He said he preferred it to be a little rich. But, I was concerned because primary accelerator pump arm was bent, and accelerator pump cam was not changed in rebuild? It's a white cam? Anyway, I don't feel comfortable as it sits, so, if any of you do carbs, let me know?

On the cam, what should I run? I've looked at so many specs from Lunati, Compcams and Iskey, I'm seeing double. Thoughts?

Thank you much!
Brian N

[plovett]

I have personally run that intake on a 428CJ.  It was in a 1966 Fairlane GTA, originally a 390 car.  The intake was unmodified and I had a Holley 3310 on it, not a -1.  I had a less desirable later version with the straight boosters.   I can't remember exactly which one.  The 428 had an unknown "RV" cam from the 80's.  It might have also been called a 3/4 race cam.  I dunno what it was.  It was a mild hydraulic flat tappet performance cam.  If I had to guess it would have been around 220-228 degrees duration and just over .500" lift with a fairly wide lobe separation angle like 112 or 114.   That is just a pure guess based on my memory of how it performed.  With a stock C6 and 3.25 gears, and Hooker 1-3/4" headers it pulled to 6000-6200 rpm.  Anyhoo.....getting off track.  My point was the intake worked just fine.  It pulled good from from low rpm to redline with no issues.  That was all seat of the pants feel, though.  I bet an Edelbrock RPM would beat it up all over the place if measured in any quantifiable way.

Maybe a cam like this?

https://www.lunatipower.com/street-strip-hydraulic-flat-tappet-cam-ford-352-428-270-280.html

paulie

[FESCJ]

Paulie, that Lunati cam looks decent. I was also wondering about Compcams 270H, and or the Lunati factory muscle cam which seems to be the modern day equivalent of the old CJ cam.

Any thoughts?

Brian

[rockhouse66]

I had a '69 Formal Roof CJ automatic car with that 270H cam and it was a dog.  Didn't seem to come on until 3500 RPM or more.  Maybe there were other reasons, but I can't recommend that cam.  Idled smoothly though. 

[My427stang]

So here is what I would likely do.  However, there are some assumptions here

1 - You want this ready for the wife, easy driving and willing to give up the peak power
2 - No need to change from stock parts to make it work

I would go with a custom cam, add a little taper to ease in break in, use a Camsaver lifter, and make sure spring pressures work with what you have. 

Given the engine specs, I'd leave the intake alone, leave the converter stock (or whatever is in it) and run one of the Magnum 270 intake lobes with a 280 exhaust lobe (I say one of, because there are options for lift and ramp speed, not just the 270H), and I would have it ground on 114 (or 112 if you want a little more chop, depends how mild you want it).  Install on 106, it will be pump gas friendly and sort of behave like a upgraded CJ cam.

The vacuum will climb high compared to what you have and pull hard on the intake.  If you really wanted an RPM intake, it would run well too, but I don't think there is any need to spend the money.

If really on a budget, I have a spare cam and lifters here that would work too.  Crane HMV 272-2 that would work too, had it in a temp 390 build until I finished my truck stroker, maybe 500 miles on it, probably closer to 250, and might be interested in a swap if your cam and lifters come out looking good.  It's a bit milder than what I am recommending though, but still very CJ-like. 272/284 112 LSA on 108, but the .050 numbers are less, so it likely would be down a bit on power. 

[cleandan]

Hey FESCJ, I have a good used Crane Cams 344341 camshaft.
This came out of my 428 (1966 7-LITRE Galaxie) when I rebuilt my engine.
I purchased and installed this cam years ago and I am pretty sure the cam has less than 8,000 miles on it because I just did not drive the car that much.
I removed the cam from my good running engine and placed it in an oil filled PVC tube, sealed it, and put it on the shelf a long time ago.

Talk this cam over with the guys on this forum.
If it will work I will open the tube, verify the cam is still good, and send it your way to help with the project if you wish.

If the cam will not work, no worries, and no harm in refusing my offer.

[FESCJ]

Hey folks, truly appreciate all of the responses! I will try to nutshell a few things and narrow a few things a bit. I'll list it out.

1. Yes, very important that the car have manners and behave.......especially with regard to lope and sound.My wife is very interested and on board with this car. Just gotta keep it within the parameters listed.

2. All of you are much more knowledgeable about current camshafts that are available and something appropriate for this build.

3.Price is not really an issue. Having said that, I'd probably prefer dealing with an "off the shelf" cam as opposed to a custom grind.

4. My first car in 1979 was a Fairlane Cobra with C6 auto and 3.50 rear. It was a bit rusty and tired, but it still ran great.......basically stock. I want my current car to at least perform like a stock CJ Fairlane would.

5. I feel bad saying what I did in line 4 simply because you are all so very good at building great FE engines and cars. Again, I'm not happy about it, but, my circumstances require me to probably pull some power from this engine in regard to civility.

6. The camshafts and offers regarding Ross and Cleandan are much appreciated! I have no idea how to respond? Thank you.

7. I'm a little frustrated because this thing has been sitting for nearly ten years and it's not done yet. I am trying to do my best. I am better with regard to this forum and knowledge within.

Having said all of that, any thoughts? That's about as straight as I can be on this build.

Thank you,
Brian N

[e philpott]

The cam you have now would be fine with a 2400 rpm converter

[FESCJ]

So, it would idle ok and be ok by virtue of what I listed? I'm not opposed to running things as they currently sit. I'm just trying to be proactive to my future health wise, etc.

I had planned on a Hughes convertor in the 2400 stall range. Coupled with 3.89 gears in Fairlane.

Would I be ok?

Thx,
Brian