1964 P-code 390

[troublemaker427]

It looks like we will be doing a 390-330 build this winter.  We have a complete, what we think is untouched '64 p code 390-330 engine.  It will go into my P-code 1964 Galaxie 4-speed, when it is done.  I believe the heads on these are the same as the 390-300?  How about the intake.  Is there any difference between a 390-300 & 390-330 except the solid lifter block and cam?  I am aware of the cast iron shorties on the 330.  How is the stock solid lifter cam?  I'm considering a Comp 270S but could possibly stay with the stock cam if it looks ok upon disassembly.  Would these heads benefit form 2.09/1.65 valves without any porting?  I'm trying to get a came plan together before we tear into this thing.

[427mach1]

Here's some info on FE factory cams, there are two that might have been used in your engine.  You'll have to look for the identifying marks to determine which one you have.  https://www.mercurystuff.com/fe-camshaft-specs.html

[troublemaker427]

Thanks!

[WerbyFord]

390/330pi:
* It was a fair but unproven consensus on the FE Forums that most or all the 63 390/330PI had the c3ae-c "Denver" heads, so they had a CR of about 10.5 instead of the stock 9.6

* Not sure about 64. The stock CR went up to 10.0 so the "Denver" heads would have given 11.0 CR, almost 427 territory. NHRA Blueprint does list the c3ae-c heads as legal for both the 390/300 and 390/330 in 1964. But they list cc at 73.1 cc which would negate any added CR. In contrast, NHRA lists the 1963 390/300 and 390/330 at 64.55cc minimum so stock c3ae-c heads for higher CR are legal in 1963 but not 1964.

* Same intake

* Different carb but still a 1.12 Autolite 500cfm. Any "top shelf" 1.12 should do the job.

* My dad was on final line at Wayne and built big Fords/Mercs from 1952-1974 (after that they switched to the Maverick). He said about mid-year 1964 they ran out of the 406-style shorty iron exhaust and went to the flat logs instead. Not a good thing, so stay with the 406-style for sure.

* The cam, near as I can tell, is about 206-206 at .050 lobe. I've never had one to measure though. The early 1958 352/300 solid cam measures very close to that duration. So it's a little like an early 390GT cam at 206-206, but solid instead of hydraulic. I was going to use a Comp 264S IIRC to mock the 390PI cam. Seems Erson also had a decent clone. The Erson RV10M at 206-206 or Erson TQ20M at 216-216 would likely sound and perform like a 390PI cam. No noticeable idle at all, just clatter.

* Hopefully you can degree that stock 390PI cam as it is one of the remaining FE mysteries (the .050 duration).

* I grew up in the back seat of a P-code, and it was so much fun I bounced up & down in the seat as my dad wore the rear tires out, while I wore the seat stitching out. He didnt mind too much, within a year or 2 I was building Model A carburetors he got for $1 each.

[427John]

I believe the C3AE-C heads fell out of use along with the earlier dished 390 pistons,every 390 that I pulled originally installed C heads off of were dished piston shortblocks.The only differences I have been able to find between them and 406 6V C's have all been in machining,valve seats and valve spring pockets cut for spring seat cups.I had acquired a single 406 C and and a few sets of 390 C's and was checking to see if I could get one machined to be a mate for the single.The 64 engine should have the later heads with the improved intake port,which the C3AE-C's don't have,the C4AE-G's which are relatively common will work with the flat top pistons and allow you stay under the 11.00 compression ratio but allow you to get nearly that high if desired by milling and head gasket selection,and am fairly certain those were the castings used on the 65 Pcode if not the 64.The C4AE-G's will absolutely accept the LR/CJ valves I have a set so modified on my Starliner without porting and the otherwiswe stock 64 427 they are on seems to like them.Installing the larger valves may require boring the throat slightly your cylinder head guy should be able to advise you on that.

[WerbyFord]

I believe the C3AE-C heads fell out of use along with the earlier dished 390 pistons,every 390 that I pulled originally installed C heads off of were dished piston shortblocks.The only differences I have been able to find between them and 406 6V C's have all been in machining,valve seats and valve spring pockets cut for spring seat cups.I had acquired a single 406 C and and a few sets of 390 C's and was checking to see if I could get one machined to be a mate for the single.The 64 engine should have the later heads with the improved intake port,which the C3AE-C's don't have,the C4AE-G's which are relatively common will work with the flat top pistons and allow you stay under the 11.00 compression ratio but allow you to get nearly that high if desired by milling and head gasket selection,and am fairly certain those were the castings used on the 65 Pcode if not the 64.The C4AE-G's will absolutely accept the LR/CJ valves I have a set so modified on my Starliner without porting and the otherwiswe stock 64 427 they are on seems to like them.Installing the larger valves may require boring the throat slightly your cylinder head guy should be able to advise you on that.

I've heard before that the c4ae-g head intake port was "improved" somehow vs eb c1ae-a or c3ae-c, but I can't feel where, I've compared both the best I can. Any idea?

[427John]

That would be the ring that was cast into the intake port somewhere in the bowl area of the C3AE-J Hi riser and incorporated into all subsequent FE castings supposedly.I believe this would only apply to unported heads since any bowl work would probably take it out.I've seen it referenced in Hot Rod  magazines from the time and also in the How to rebuild your FE big block by Steve Christ. I've also seen it referenced elsewhere but can't remember if any of it was Ford documentation.The stuff I've seen about it talked about it being some sort of flow straightener or venturi effect but who knows it may have just been propaganda or advertising hype,it sounds good anyway.I wonder if anybody has ever flow comparison tested earlier stock heads to stock C4AE-G heads.

[427mach1]

.....I wonder if anybody has ever flow comparison tested earlier stock heads to stock C4AE-G heads.

Take a look here, see if you can find what you are interested in.  http://users.erols.com/srweiss/tablehdc.htm#Ford_Big_Block

[427mach1]

.....I wonder if anybody has ever flow comparison tested earlier stock heads to stock C4AE-G heads.

Take a look here, see if you can find the comparison you are looking for.  http://users.erols.com/srweiss/tablehdc.htm#Ford_Big_Block

[427John]

Those are pretty cool tables,I was surprised to see a set of vintage 289 GT-40 LeMans heads on there.It looks like not much difference at low lifts but it sort of starts to pull away at .500 and above.By the way thats the first time I've ever heard the C3AE-C's referred to as "Denver heads" kind of a throwback to the old flathead days,but appropriate they give at least a half point more compression than other standard FE heads.Years ago I had the opportunity walk thru a local rebuilders core storage area and found a pile of them,he said they wouldn't use them for rebuilds because it got the compression out of their warranty comfort zone,said I could take all I wanted for scrap price,if I had been in my truck I would have taken more but as it was I made off with 5 or 6 sets.

[troublemaker427]

Well like everything else these days we are behind schedule that is why I am digging up this old thread.  We are finally starting on our '64 P-code 390 build.  We pulled the heads off the other day and found them to be C1AE heads.  This definitely was an unopened original engine that we pulled from a '64 Custom police car many years ago.  It still had the shorty cast iron headers on it.

This is going to be a fairly mild build but we are going to upgrade the valves to a set of CJs.  Can anyone tell me what the approximate compression ratio will be for the C1AE heads with a set of Speed Pro L-2291F 30 pistons at zero deck?  We already have a set of these pistons and would like to use them.  Thanks