Author Topic: Flathead I6 226 H Series Camshaft Timing. Odd  (Read 4213 times)

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chris401

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Re: Flathead I6 226 H Series Camshaft Timing. Odd
« Reply #15 on: September 06, 2020, 08:07:44 PM »
Didn't know you had any machine shop tooling, that is what I get for assuming. I don't consider myself a builder really. I put together parts someone else makes and hope they stay together and don't leak. I wanted to break into building with my last job. Had a good time learning the balance shop.


EDIT: Thank you for triggering a thought. The man who ran the balance shop built marine engines at one time. I think I will wake him up out of retirement.
« Last Edit: September 06, 2020, 08:09:56 PM by chris401 »

chris401

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Re: Flathead I6 226 H Series Camshaft Timing. Odd
« Reply #16 on: September 06, 2020, 08:43:29 PM »
The geography of the timed components would be the reason this engine runs smooth and does not backfire. One day I'll tear off the front of the tractor to do something to it. At that point I'll map the camshaft and compare to frnkeore camshaft specs. Maybe it will help out the next guy who digs up one of these antiques.


frnkeore,
     Moved around some parts and come up with a complete hood. The old Ford has moved up from vandalized to just derelict.


frnkeore

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Re: Flathead I6 226 H Series Camshaft Timing. Odd
« Reply #17 on: September 07, 2020, 01:01:43 AM »
A step at a time, Chris. A little here, a little there and some paint :)

Here's my 850 puller. 16.9 x 28 and 1600 lb of cast iron on the rear. 1160 lb on the outside and 440 lb on the inside. Still lots of little thing to do to it.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2020, 01:04:43 AM by frnkeore »
Frank

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MeanGene

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Re: Flathead I6 226 H Series Camshaft Timing. Odd
« Reply #18 on: September 07, 2020, 01:45:26 PM »
OK, I've watched all this fussing over cam timing- it has good compression, and you say it runs fine and smooth- so what's the problem? Run it! I also have a Funk 6 that appears to have all its original conversion parts. It has the stock 8N air cleaner, with a one piece tube and bonnet to the carb. Also has the stock Proofmeter (tach), driven by the stock 8N drive on the back of the 8N governor- very simple, just a fabbed bracket to remount the governor. When I fired mine up, it started instantly and ran very smooth, unfortunately the water pump leaked like a sieve, and I haven't had time to mess with it. It also has a backhoe on it, with a mini-tractor loader grafted on. When you start talking about a Sherman, you'd want to consider that it's running 115 hp through a trans and rearend that was designed around a 20-something hp engine. I also have a sweet '50 8N (1100 hrs!) with a Howard Reducer trans (and have the Howard Rotavator it was designed for) that was only to slow the tractor down enough to let the tiller work, not for plowing etc., not known for strength. I plowed snow with a front-distributor 8N with a Wagner step-through loader and the no sleeves and Mercury pistons upgrade when I was a kid in NY. I also have a nice 850 with a step-through, 16.9s with the pie weights, and the 800/801 series was always a horny small tractor, pulls hard

chris401

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Re: Flathead I6 226 H Series Camshaft Timing. Odd
« Reply #19 on: September 08, 2020, 09:13:35 AM »
OK, I've watched all this fussing over cam timing- it has good compression, and you say it runs fine and smooth- so what's the problem? Run it! I also have a Funk 6 that appears to have all its original conversion parts. It has the stock 8N air cleaner, with a one piece tube and bonnet to the carb. Also has the stock Proofmeter (tach), driven by the stock 8N drive on the back of the 8N governor- very simple, just a fabbed bracket to remount the governor. When I fired mine up, it started instantly and ran very smooth, unfortunately the water pump leaked like a sieve, and I haven't had time to mess with it. It also has a backhoe on it, with a mini-tractor loader grafted on. When you start talking about a Sherman, you'd want to consider that it's running 115 hp through a trans and rearend that was designed around a 20-something hp engine. I also have a sweet '50 8N (1100 hrs!) with a Howard Reducer trans (and have the Howard Rotavator it was designed for) that was only to slow the tractor down enough to let the tiller work, not for plowing etc., not known for strength. I plowed snow with a front-distributor 8N with a Wagner step-through loader and the no sleeves and Mercury pistons upgrade when I was a kid in NY. I also have a nice 850 with a step-through, 16.9s with the pie weights, and the 800/801 series was always a horny small tractor, pulls hard
My thoughts, my problem. My peer discussion turned into a help topic when I didn't ask for help. Looks like the guys who know these Flathead's don't fool around with these forums or are dead.

If you have a factory installed tachometers both of yours are April 1950 or newer. Different dash and steering box than 1948. Good job on keeping the Howard intact.

My427stang

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Re: Flathead I6 226 H Series Camshaft Timing. Odd
« Reply #20 on: September 08, 2020, 10:07:41 AM »
OK, I've watched all this fussing over cam timing- it has good compression, and you say it runs fine and smooth- so what's the problem? Run it! I also have a Funk 6 that appears to have all its original conversion parts. It has the stock 8N air cleaner, with a one piece tube and bonnet to the carb. Also has the stock Proofmeter (tach), driven by the stock 8N drive on the back of the 8N governor- very simple, just a fabbed bracket to remount the governor. When I fired mine up, it started instantly and ran very smooth, unfortunately the water pump leaked like a sieve, and I haven't had time to mess with it. It also has a backhoe on it, with a mini-tractor loader grafted on. When you start talking about a Sherman, you'd want to consider that it's running 115 hp through a trans and rearend that was designed around a 20-something hp engine. I also have a sweet '50 8N (1100 hrs!) with a Howard Reducer trans (and have the Howard Rotavator it was designed for) that was only to slow the tractor down enough to let the tiller work, not for plowing etc., not known for strength. I plowed snow with a front-distributor 8N with a Wagner step-through loader and the no sleeves and Mercury pistons upgrade when I was a kid in NY. I also have a nice 850 with a step-through, 16.9s with the pie weights, and the 800/801 series was always a horny small tractor, pulls hard
My thoughts, my problem. My peer discussion turned into a help topic when I didn't ask for help. Looks like the guys who know these Flathead's don't fool around with these forums or are dead.

Well it is an FE forum...  however seriously, I grew up working on these, and all kinds of open wheel stuff, and far more heavy equipment than the light stuff, but even the sharp guys didn't get into the detail we do with our hot rods.  The owners just needed them back to work, and it'd be a bonus if it didn't leak, but who cares if its on a dirt floor half the time, oil was cheap back then LOL.

I would venture to guess, anything more than knowing how to align timing marks, only happened if someone was building some sort of experiment.  Hell, we were the biggest Ford FE guys in the county and didn't hang a degree wheel on anything unless it was a racer.  Maybe that's the route, look for some crazy dude that ran one of the engines at Bonneville, there almost HAS to be someone, lots of inventive guys (and crazy)

That being said, I am interested, but I wouldn't even know where to get the info you are trying to figure out. If it's important to you, hang a degree wheel on it somehow, might take splitting it apart, but you'd know what it is.
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MeanGene

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Re: Flathead I6 226 H Series Camshaft Timing. Odd
« Reply #21 on: September 08, 2020, 10:09:33 AM »
I grew up working with many different tractors and equipment, my gramps had an International Harvester dealership, trucking and lime spreading, and several farms. We had the 8N, a couple genuine Jubilees, Fergie TO20s, IH 340, all with Wagner step-thru loaders for the lime spreading. He sold Farmall Ms, Hs, then the number series into the 06 series, we had a pair of Ms and a TD6 when I was little, then a pair of 706Ds and my uncles Deere 420 popper. Have had my own stuff, an M and Super M, Deere B and a 430W (that I traded for the 850/loader), a pair of Super M Diesels, all have moved on to new homes. Presently a Super M T/A that came from the original owners, a strong 450, and 330, 340 and 350 Diesel Utilities, always have a few skiploaders around as profit projects. Just drug home a Deere 70, one of the larger "poppers" that is sitting with the cylinders full of brake fluid, hoping to get it un-stuck. Most of these old buggars, and the 8N in particular, were designed to be very simple and easy to work on, so the average farmer could maintain them, unless they really shit the bed, which was usually from abuse or lack of maintenance. My point is these old buggars are brutally simple, carbs and distributors are crude but work fine with minimal maintenance, and if you tinker with them keeping in mind that they are 40's and 50's technology, can be a lot of fun- so I try not to over-think them. It's amazing the ways the engineers made things work back then, and when you park that Deere 70 next to a Farmall M or the Fords, they couldn't be more different in design, but did the same work. The Funk stuff is fun, as they re-used as many components as possible from the original tractor and still kept it simple

chris401

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Re: Flathead I6 226 H Series Camshaft Timing. Odd
« Reply #22 on: September 08, 2020, 01:45:24 PM »
Now that we all know the next guy isn't green we can talk tractors in the Non-FE discussion section.

The man I bought my parts donor distributor from runs a 226 in his driver and a 254 at the Salt Flats. He wasn't familiar with the industrial camshaft grind either.

I am not apt to cut up or change an antique. I may swap a part or two, box it up and shelve it. I would like to find a 48 era appearing proofmeter from a different make for mine. Since the backhoe is a 1950 I still may hang a Ford proofmeter off the side of a generator looking tachometer drive alternator I found online.

Either of you have one of these on the antiques you deal with?

 https://www.walmart.com/ip/NEW-Alternator-Fits-Lucas-Case-Ford-Generator-W-Tach-Drive-Many-Others-2-YEAR-WARRANTY/615996290?wmlspartner=wmtlabs&adid=22222222223279963132&wmlspartner=wmtlabs&wl0=e&wl1=o&wl2=m&wl3=74973054451134&wl4=pla-4578572604979016&wl5=&wl6=&wl7=&%20wl10=Walmart&wl12=615996290_10000012260&wl14=tachometer%20drive%20alternator&veh=sem

frnkeore

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Re: Flathead I6 226 H Series Camshaft Timing. Odd
« Reply #23 on: September 08, 2020, 04:07:30 PM »
I also have 2 Ferguson TO 35's that use that generator.

As long as you use the Fergie ratio to the generator and a Fergie tach, you should be fine.
Frank

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chris401

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Re: Flathead I6 226 H Series Camshaft Timing. Odd
« Reply #24 on: September 09, 2020, 09:06:31 AM »
I also have 2 Ferguson TO 35's that use that generator.

As long as you use the Fergie ratio to the generator and a Fergie tach, you should be fine.
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