Author Topic: Lema outlawed  (Read 2848 times)

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allrightmike

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Lema outlawed
« on: August 04, 2020, 06:19:47 PM »
Was there a ligament reason why NHRA outlawed the 385 series engine from certain classes over a few thousandths of an inch bore spacing? 

fekbmax

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Re: Lema outlawed
« Reply #1 on: August 04, 2020, 07:16:51 PM »
There in chevys back pocket
Keith.  KB MAX Racing.

e philpott

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Re: Lema outlawed
« Reply #2 on: August 04, 2020, 07:48:04 PM »
It would force all the Chrysler based 426 to have change over to a Ford in the Nitro classes , longer  bore spacing in this case makes thicker cylinder wall .

machoneman

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Re: Lema outlawed
« Reply #3 on: August 04, 2020, 07:59:25 PM »
GM's money and $ investments by too many on 426 based stuff. Read this now old article

Discussion Starter • #1 • Jun 29, 2004
Boss thrown for loss
TODD MILLES; The News Tribune

The excitement in Walt Austin's voice quickly turned to fed-up disgust.

Austin, of Tacoma, has been one of drag racing's most innovative car builders for a half-century. His son, Pat, is a four-time National Hot Rod Association Alcohol Funny Car champion, and was voted one of the all-time 50 greatest drivers when the NHRA celebrated its 50th anniversary in 2001.

After nearly a three-year layoff from full-time racing, the Austins were due back for the 2004 season in the NHRA Alcohol Funny Car class, debuting a Ford Mustang Boss 429 Hemi engine as their power source.

When word of the Austins' new vehicle reached racing circles, the project quickly met resistance - so much, the NHRA passed a new block-specification rule that rendered the Ford engine obsolete.

Even though the rule does not go into effect until the 2005 racing season, the Austins aborted their plans to return to the sport they have so greatly benefited, both as racers and spokesmen.

"We were going to upgrade (the Boss 429) with the latest technology with state-of-the-art stuff," Walt Austin said. "Word of what we were doing got out. The NHRA wants to keep a level playing field, and they were nickel and diming us on some of the changes anyway ... but then they came out with this big deal, saying the specs have changed."

The rule specifically deals with the spacing of cylinders in the engine block. To bore a cylinder is to enlarge it to accommodate a bigger piston, which allows more fuel and air to pass through, thus creating more horsepower.

In the 429 Boss engine, the spacing between cylinder bores, from center to center, is 4.9 inches, which is what the NHRA has previously regulated as being legal. Since the Austins revealed their designs, the new dimension will be limited to 4.84 inches, starting in 2005.

The Austins said they have not received a clear explanation why the rule was passed, although many of the association's recent decisions have been to stem rising costs. Attempts to reach officials in the NHRA national technical department this week were unsuccessful.

What is clear is that two of the sport's primary aims have been affected - innovation and history.

First of all, the Ford engine has had a place in the sport for a long time.

Carroll Carter is an engine builder and Ford supplier from Manassass, Va., who has been a consultant on the Austins' project for the past year. He has been involved in the sport for 35 years, and has manufactured the Boss 429 engine and parts since 1995.

Primarily, racers in the sportsman classes such as Alcohol Funny Car or Comp Eliminator have used the 429 Boss. But so did Bob Glidden, the famed 10-time Pro Stock champion from the 1970s and 1980s whose 85 professional victories rank him No. 3 on the all-time list.

"Several (drag) racers have been racing it, off and on," Carter said of the Ford engine, which was first raced in NASCAR in the late 1960s. "In the last 1 1/2 years, people have showed (moderate) interest in it, but then Walt really got interested in it. He tested the engine on his dyno in his shop and that is how he got familiar with it. He wanted to do a new project, and got an idea to build a Ford."

Walt Austin has been experimenting with the engine for three years.

"We knew it had a lot of potential, but it had a lot of problems," Austin said. "We were going to eliminate the problems. But it wouldn't be something that would be a half-second faster than the (Funny Car) class."

The Austins had their engine block built by John Rodeck of California, a builder they've used for 15 years. They claim the cylinder spacing of the Boss 429 engine allows for a thicker sleeve to give the block more stability and protection from wear during high-speed runs.

Sure, the bigger block creates more horsepower, but Pat Austin said his car already had more horsepower than the tracks they race on will hold.

"What we did was take the combination of the 429 Boss and have made it more user-friendly," Pat Austin said. "It is a cosmetic change, really."

Early in the year, word of the Austins' project spread. The NHRA asked to review the blueprints, Walt Austin said.

In late March, several racers, including the Austins, were sent a letter by the NHRA stating that engine specifications for the Alcohol Funny Car class had been changed.

"I'm not angry at anybody," Pat Austin said. "It's their playground, and they make the rules."

The Austins are not the only ones affected by the rule change. Greg Hunter, a native of Canada who now lives in Sheridan, Wyo., was planning on racing in NHRA divisional competition full-time this year with the Boss 429 engine in the Alcohol Funny Car class.

Hunter tested his car in Las Vegas, got mixed results (6-second range on a quarter-mile track) but was pleased enough to start scheduling divisional races.

That is, until the NHRA stepped in.

"It blindsided me. I've been putting my Ford combination together for two years," Hunter said. "When I first heard it, I thought there was no way they could do that ... to completely outlaw the Ford engine."

The first weekend of April, Hunter went to the NHRA stop in Las Vegas, circulated a petition of protest among the drivers and even tried to talk to NHRA officials about the rule change.

"They haven't given me a reason whatsoever," Hunter said. "I went to one (tech official) to ask, and he turned his back on me. It was sort of like, 'Oh my God, what's going on here?'

"I even talked to Bernie Fedderly (pro driver John Force's co-crew chief with Austin Coil) just to see if somebody from Ford would help me on this. Bernie said their crew was doing the same sort of (testing), putting parts on the car that would handle the force and make them run better ... but that the NHRA stopped them as well."

Hunter, 33, went to the crew of another prominent engine builder in the sport who told the racer what the Austins were building would make everything else "obsolete" and dominate the sportsman class.

"I don't know how (the NHRA) can base their input on what somebody else is saying," Hunter said. "We have a ways to go."

The rule change has affected all parties involved. Carter said his business has declined - drivers who were going to purchase his engines and parts now don't need to, and the builder has a garage full of Ford engines.

Walt and Pat Austin still plan on racing, but not under the NHRA umbrella. Instead, they will enter some open events for match racing.

The NHRA? The motor sports association is losing one of its best drivers ever - a driver who does not expect the differences to be reconciled anytime soon.

"When you take innovation out of the sport, it is just not appealing to us," Pat Austin said.

Todd Milles:253-597-8442
todd.milles@mail.tribnet.com
Bob Maag

bsprowl

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Re: Lema outlawed
« Reply #4 on: August 04, 2020, 08:46:08 PM »
I was so disgusted by this back then that I did not renew my NHRA membership. I had been a member since the '70s. 

The MEL (430, 462, 383 and 410) engine had the same bore spacing - 4.90 - as the 429-460 engine and was active and set several records back in the 'late '50s and early '60s.  You can't race the MEL engine due to this rule in these classes. 

FrozenMerc

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Re: Lema outlawed
« Reply #5 on: August 05, 2020, 11:51:26 AM »
Not that any one was running them, but the rule also outlawed Cadillac 472 / 500 ci V8's and Packard 352 / 374 ci V8's, both of which had 5.000" bore spacing. 

pbf777

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Re: Lema outlawed
« Reply #6 on: August 05, 2020, 12:16:15 PM »
I was so disgusted by this back then that I did not renew my NHRA membership. I had been a member since the '70s.


     Yep, me too!          >:(
 

Quote
The MEL (430, 462, 383 and 410) engine had the same bore spacing - 4.90 - as the 429-460 engine and was active and set several records back in the 'late '50s and early '60s.  You can't race the MEL engine due to this rule in these classes.


     Somebody mentioned the MEL's; "a man after my own heart", as the saying goes.                :)

     Before someone starts laughing, remember it was the MEL that won Top Eliminator in the NHRA Nationals in 1959!                8)

     But Ford, under the direction of the AMA had withdrawn most of it's racing support, and when they returned Ford Motor Company decided there was only going to be enough room (money?) for one racing brand, and choose to promote the FORD FE vs the MERCURY-EDSEL-LINCOLN MEL as it's racing big-block banner product.  Probably the correct marketing plan, but at the time, perhaps not the better engine (now I've done it!).                  :'(

     And, the song "HOT ROD LINCOLN" (two versions) was out before the Beach Boys brought out their "409" or mentioned the 413 getting it's butt kicked songs!                 ::)   

     Scott.

Royce

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Re: Lema outlawed
« Reply #7 on: August 05, 2020, 12:31:04 PM »
And of course there is the 59 Daytona 500 that was stolen from a Mel Powered 60 Tbird . Petty was really a lap behind... Another sanctioning body with GM bias..

59 a good year for MEL  They had a better head than the FE.   Good to see some closet MEL lovers on here.. 
1955 Thunderbird Competition Coupe Altered Chassis "War Bird" 383 Lincoln Y block 520 hp
1955 Thunderbird 292 275 hp Y Block
1956 Ford Victoria 292 Y block

1957 Mercury 2dr Wagon "Battle Wagon" drag car 
1957 Thunderbird Glass body Tube Chassis drag car 333 cu in 500 hp Ford Y block
1961 Starliner 390/375 clone
1965 GT40 tribute w/FE
1966 Falcon Pro Touring project
Kaase Boss 547. 840 HP 698 Torque  pump gas
1992 BMW V-12 5.0
2001 Lincoln 5.4 4 cam.
1968 Cougar XR7

CV355

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Re: Lema outlawed
« Reply #8 on: August 05, 2020, 01:05:05 PM »
I have never understood the restrictions...

Wouldn't less restrictions foster more innovation?

pbf777

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Re: Lema outlawed
« Reply #9 on: August 05, 2020, 02:55:42 PM »
     It's called...............POLITICS!!!!!!!!!        >:(

     Scott.

pbf777

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Re: Lema outlawed
« Reply #10 on: August 05, 2020, 03:19:01 PM »
      B.T.W., as I have the supercharger intake, I'm looking for the Weiand front timing cover with the camshaft driven accessory drive mount provision for the MEL.

      And, I'm always looking for the original "SUPER MARAUDER" 3-duce Holley's, List #1673 & 1674 & or with #5750614 & #5750613, or even any other "stuff" for the MEL's          :)

      Scott.

Katz427

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Re: Lema outlawed
« Reply #11 on: August 05, 2020, 06:15:05 PM »
Royce brought this up. So for Royce, the 1959 Daytona 500. I was at a car show, and a booth run by a couple of people, were asking people to write NASCAR and finally give credit to Johnny Beauchamp as the winner of the 1959 Daytona 500.
The story goes that while several officials were studying the photos, other officials counted the lap by lap scoring cards and determined that Beauchamp was actually one lap ahead of Lee Petty. So I wrote a short letter to NASCAR asking for their response. I did receive a reply. The reply stated, that it was correct that Johnny Beauchamp, was one lap ahead of Lee Petty, but that Petty won the race, and no further comment. Maybe someday, the "real" winning driver will be recognised, but not counting on it.

Stangman

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Re: Lema outlawed
« Reply #12 on: August 05, 2020, 07:28:59 PM »
Thats BS. How does that fly. It makes no sense. Its not a back yard race how can they get away with that. Shit like that pisses me off.

pbf777

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Re: Lema outlawed
« Reply #13 on: August 06, 2020, 10:12:18 AM »
      And this is why I don't watch NASCAR anymore!         

      P-O-L-I-T-I-C-S!!!!!!!          >:(

      It was always about entertainment sure, but it has regressed into absolutely a traveling circus!             :(

      And getting back (boy, did we ever hi-jack this tread!) to the O.P., these shenanigans by NHRA over the Lima 385 series engines of Ford, carry the same foul odor!           >:(

      Scott.

cammerfe

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Re: Lema outlawed
« Reply #14 on: August 06, 2020, 10:14:34 PM »
My last pass on a dragstrip was in a '67 Mustang with a TP 427 for an engine. In the semi-final round, I was beat by another Mustang with a NASCAR-style Boss 429 in it. His car was new and he took the final race and the trophy. I think it was 1969.

Since then, my racing has been done in a milieu in which they look at cubic inches, body style/modifications, fuel and the presence of a blower. I can run whut I brung. What fun!!

KS