Venting....2017 Ford Fusion Sport - blown engine

[My427stang]

Ross,
It appears to be the head having a design defect allowing the the pressure and thermal cycles to 'work' the head gasket until it fails adjacent to one of the cooling pass-throughs.  The new heads are over half the cost of the job.

Gotcha, I would think Ford would have tried to exhaust cheaper methods than replace the heads, but I think back to 6.0 diesels.  They would lift the heads with boost, but adding head studs would let them live even when asked to do crazy things.  Though maybe you could cheat there and get off cheaper if ARP made a stud that would work

[Heo]

Ross,
It appears to be the head having a design defect allowing the the pressure and thermal cycles to 'work' the head gasket until it fails adjacent to one of the cooling pass-throughs.  The new heads are over half the cost of the job.

Gotcha, I would think Ford would have tried to exhaust cheaper methods than replace the heads, but I think back to 6.0 diesels.  They would lift the heads with boost, but adding head studs would let them live even when asked to do crazy things.  Though maybe you could cheat there and get off cheaper if ARP made a stud that would work

Maybe if head is clamped down harder with studs the head would not be able to work the gasket

[RustyCrankshaft]

Ross,
It appears to be the head having a design defect allowing the the pressure and thermal cycles to 'work' the head gasket until it fails adjacent to one of the cooling pass-throughs.  The new heads are over half the cost of the job.

Gotcha, I would think Ford would have tried to exhaust cheaper methods than replace the heads, but I think back to 6.0 diesels.  They would lift the heads with boost, but adding head studs would let them live even when asked to do crazy things.  Though maybe you could cheat there and get off cheaper if ARP made a stud that would work

The 6.0 head gasket failures were mostly due to the EGR system, not boost. Stock head bolts are will hold to around 450 rwhp and 45lbs of boost if the tune is good.

Every manufacturer has problems, but overall Ford does pretty good as a company. Their warranty return rate is pretty low. I've had stuff from Ford that was crap and others that have been fine. My 2001 Ranger 4.0 SOHC now has 291k miles and it's had 2 EGR valves before that got turned off and a month ago I finally had to put new valve cover orings in it. Alternatively I had a Toyota truck that had to have the FRAME replaced under warranty because they break in half. For whatever reason, brand loyalty, media coverage, etc. you don't hear too much about the import failures than you do domestic.

It just sucks more when it's your thing that is the defective one! Been there and done that. But I'd buy another Toyota truck if I found one I liked even after my warranty frame replacement. A sample size of 1 that I've owned and failed is just that, 1. I could own a 100 more and maybe never see the problem again. (Ok, well with my luck 99 out of 100 would fail, but my bad luck aside you get the point).

[TimeWarpF100]

I wish it was the cool kind of blown engine with big wide cogged belts or a big turbo sticking through the roof.  But no, with about 75,000 miles on the clock, the engine is checking out.  According to Ford, the heads have a design defect in them so the head gaskets are slowly going which is why I get a random check-engine and cylinder mis-fire.  TSB's are out there for the repair, and other vehicles with the same engine have been recalled - but not the lowly Fusion Sport.    Feedback from Ford Corporate was we can take, $1,000 off the $8,500 dollar bill to replace both heads and all the gaskets (25 hour job) but not much else.

I have to say I'm torn - I know its out of warranty but its a known design flaw that forced recalls on other vehicles with the 2.7L.  Really gives me pause whether or not to buy another Ford.  All services were done by Ford as well.  My old fusion went over 210,000 miles and never missed a beat.

I guess buyer beware next time to spring for the extended warranty.  Its too bad too - this car was an absolute dream to drive.

Joe

Bummer about the 2.7 I almost bought a Fusion Sport when they first came out.  I have torn down & messed with the 2.7.

For that much $$ why not just get a complete replacement engine. Looking online I found one with 11,588 miles for only 2075.00 here in phoenix. Keep yours for parts/spare. Doesn't pay to spend that much money on a 75k mile engine. 

I would push a little harder on replacement especially when Ford is aware of a issue.

[TimeWarpF100]

H & H Boot Hill located in Denver shows a 7000 mile engine for 1699.00 and am sure its negotiable.

Many many engines out there with under 10k miles for 2k or less.

[TimeWarpF100]

If it's off warranty I think I would try cutting the heads, new gaskets, and bolts if required, would even be nicer if ARP makes a stud.  You'd likely never have to touch it again.  Then decide later about flipping it or just drive off. 

ON EDIT: After looking at the complaints, I guess the question would be whether its a head gasket or cracked block. Does anyone have truth data on what is failing?  I'd would assume it's worse than a head gasket or Ford would repair rather than replace

I have torn these engines down. It takes a BUNCH of time to tear down then put back together. Very complex & just the gaskets are BIG $$ It's a bunch of labor to pull the heads simply not worth it. Reason it is 25 hours for the head replacement or whatever was quoted. Pull and replace is only way to fly. I found probably over a 100 low mile engines out there.

Not like building a FE . .

[WConley]

If it's off warranty I think I would try cutting the heads, new gaskets, and bolts if required, would even be nicer if ARP makes a stud.  You'd likely never have to touch it again.  Then decide later about flipping it or just drive off. 

ON EDIT: After looking at the complaints, I guess the question would be whether its a head gasket or cracked block. Does anyone have truth data on what is failing?  I'd would assume it's worse than a head gasket or Ford would repair rather than replace

I have torn these engines down. It takes a BUNCH of time to tear down then put back together. Very complex & just the gaskets are BIG $$ It's a bunch of labor to pull the heads simply not worth it. Reason it is 25 hours for the head replacement or whatever was quoted. Pull and replace is only way to fly. I found probably over a 100 low mile engines out there.

Not like building a FE . .

+1.  If it was my car, I'd do that in a heartbeat.  Yes the engine swap is some work, but it's do-able with normal tools.  I've torn into several modern engines and it's a giant pain!

[My427stang]

If it's off warranty I think I would try cutting the heads, new gaskets, and bolts if required, would even be nicer if ARP makes a stud.  You'd likely never have to touch it again.  Then decide later about flipping it or just drive off. 

ON EDIT: After looking at the complaints, I guess the question would be whether its a head gasket or cracked block. Does anyone have truth data on what is failing?  I'd would assume it's worse than a head gasket or Ford would repair rather than replace

I have torn these engines down. It takes a BUNCH of time to tear down then put back together. Very complex & just the gaskets are BIG $$ It's a bunch of labor to pull the heads simply not worth it. Reason it is 25 hours for the head replacement or whatever was quoted. Pull and replace is only way to fly. I found probably over a 100 low mile engines out there.

Not like building a FE . .

So I have been in almost anything you can think of, but not of course one of these...that being said, how can you justify swapping another for potentially the same failure?  Even 25 hrs flat rate to repair is likely 2 days work humping, and you are running, especially if there is an updated head design or other potential fix. 

Is there another year or updated head design that he could ID before purchasing a low mile engine?  Otherwise seems like just buying time for the same failure, with a day or two worth of work, to include prepping the JY engine for swap

[TimeWarpF100]

If it's off warranty I think I would try cutting the heads, new gaskets, and bolts if required, would even be nicer if ARP makes a stud.  You'd likely never have to touch it again.  Then decide later about flipping it or just drive off. 

ON EDIT: After looking at the complaints, I guess the question would be whether its a head gasket or cracked block. Does anyone have truth data on what is failing?  I'd would assume it's worse than a head gasket or Ford would repair rather than replace

I have torn these engines down. It takes a BUNCH of time to tear down then put back together. Very complex & just the gaskets are BIG $$ It's a bunch of labor to pull the heads simply not worth it. Reason it is 25 hours for the head replacement or whatever was quoted. Pull and replace is only way to fly. I found probably over a 100 low mile engines out there.

Not like building a FE . .

So I have been in almost anything you can think of, but not of course one of these...that being said, how can you justify swapping another for potentially the same failure?  Even 25 hrs flat rate to repair is likely 2 days work humping, and you are running, especially if there is an updated head design or other potential fix. 

Is there another year or updated head design that he could ID before purchasing a low mile engine?  Otherwise seems like just buying time for the same failure, with a day or two worth of work, to include prepping the JY engine for swap

The justification is spending less than 2k and a day of time for a low mile engine or paying the dealer 7k to fix the old higher mile engine.
Labor is 25 hours to replace the head where as to replace entire engine can be done in a day easily with basic hand tools.

If it were a f150 then the cab can be pulled in under 2hrs then swap engine in a few more.

No brainer. 2k and a day or 7500 and  . . .  Or, junk the otherwise good car.  2k engine and sell it would be good way to keep it from happening again.

I know of a bunch of 2.7 with zero issues. The Fusion Sport was a very limited deal different block than the truck

[Cyclone Joe]

Ended up trading it in at a Porsche Dealer for $11k. 

Its their problem now


Thanks
Joe