Bulk race fuel, where do you get it, and questions about octane types...

[cjshaker]

Because I'm tired of driving 40 miles to buy Turbo Blue, 5 gallons at a time, I'm looking at buying a 55 gallon drum, or possibly several 5 gallon cans of race fuel. Where do you guys get it at? How do they typically deliver it, or will they deliver it at all? Looking online has not been much help.

And while I'm on the subject, what octane rating would be required for a 13:1 compression ratio, with aluminum heads and modern chambers? Or what fuel in general would you recommend? Looking at VP's website just creates more questions than answers. Like why are most of their C series race fuels leaded, when most race engines these days have aluminum heads with hardened valve seats? Or why does C14 and C15 both have recommended compression ratios at 14:1 (there's only a difference of 1 octane), but C12 is rated for 15:1 (with an octane rating that is 6 points lower than C14??), and C16 at 17:1? Looking at their Master Fuel Table just creates more questions than answers, so I figured I'd ask the guys who actually use the stuff.

[FElony]

I assume you checked with the guys selling gas at any local motorsports track or to a dyno facility. They will usually sell "on the side". A while back, the local supplier to our roundy-round track used to deliver gas to guys at home in 30-gallon containers that tilted to 90º and had a petcock to dispense. Or perhaps a lever valve. Long time ago, but much easier to maneuver than a 50-gallon drum.

[Posi67]

I buy a drum of C-12 every couple years but lack of runs the past few years means I have the better part of one that is likely going to be lawn mower gas soon because of it's age. We had a friend who would take orders and bring in a truck load from the distributor. Lots cheaper that way and shipping was free. We would go to his place as soon as it arrived and he'd load us with a forklift. He paid for the entire shipment and when a couple guys left him stuck with drums of Q-16 which has a real short shelf life he quit being Mr. nice guy. Now a days there are several local shops that will bring it in for racers. 

The VP numbers are confusing and things like C-12 and C-16 are "spec" fuels mandated by NHRA. Since they dumped VP and went with Sunoco it's harder for those who like VP to find any. There are a lot of regulations for shipping and storage so finding a supplier might be difficult depending on where you are. Other brands tend to be cheaper than VP if you can find them. I think C-111 is less $$ and fairly common as a substitute for C-12. 2 years ago the drum of C-12 cost me $950.00. When I started 15 years ago I was buying from a dealer at the track and it was $100.00 for 5 US gallons so that's why the guy above decided to order his (and our) own.

Obviously, this info is of zero help to you but I happen to have time to waste. I suspect there's some good reason why most racers use Leaded however there are a lot of fast "pump gas" cars out there. In your case, as long as you get something around 110 octane then I think the engine will be happy. I stick with what I know works for me. 

[jayb]

Doug, try Rockett Brand Racing Fuel.  Jack Day from Rockett has been a sponsor of Drag Week since it's inception.  They have some 100 octane unleaded, but also plenty of higher octane leaded fuels, and it looks like they ship from their dealer network.  Their web site doesn't really say if they have dealers in Ohio.  Call them up, and say high to Jack for me.  He has a 69 Shelby, by the way...

Also, as I understand it leaded fuel inhibits detonation better than unleaded fuel, and I think it's easier to get higher octane with tetraethyl lead in the mix, so that is why it's probably used in most racing fuels.  I agree with Dale, 110 octane ought to be fine for your engine.

[cjshaker]

In your case, as long as you get something around 110 octane then I think the engine will be happy. I stick with what I know works for me.

Yep, I could care less who the company is, as long as the fuel works...and I can get it. I only looked at VP because it's popular and came to mind first. And I figured it was confusing enough to try and figure out their "system", let alone trying to look at multiple producers.

I know C12 is very popular, and according to VP, is good for up to 15:1, which is really odd because C14 and C15 are rated for higher compression, yet have lower octane ratings. WTH? And what octane rating do you go by for racing apps? MON, RON or (R+2)/2?

I assume you checked with the guys selling gas at any local motorsports track or to a dyno facility. They will usually sell "on the side".

There is one dyno I'm aware of within 100 miles, and it's at UNOH, and I doubt they would sell on the side. There's one small roundy track in the same distance, but I don't think they supply fuel, and the nearest drag strip that would have fuel is Norwalk, about 1 1/2 hours away. There aren't any speed shops or tracks near me, at least that I'm aware of. I could ask a few Modified track racers around the area, but I don't know them. If I have to, I will, but if I'm going to talk to them, I'd at least like to know what I'm after, so's I don't sound stupid....er.

[Joe-JDC]

I would suggest a minimum of 110 octane for 13.0:1 compression ratio.  In 2016, the EMC engine was at 12.8:1, and it made it on 101 at the EMC, but in 2018, with 13.0, I lost my head gasket on the third pull from detonation.  It happened so fast, the pull could not be stopped.  We had tested on 110, and was fine before the competition.  Joe-JDC

[cjshaker]

Doug, try Rockett Brand Racing Fuel.  Jack Day from Rockett has been a sponsor of Drag Week since it's inception.  They have some 100 octane unleaded, but also plenty of higher octane leaded fuels, and it looks like they ship from their dealer network.  Their web site doesn't really say if they have dealers in Ohio.  Call them up, and say high to Jack for me.  He has a 69 Shelby, by the way...

Also, as I understand it leaded fuel inhibits detonation better than unleaded fuel, and I think it's easier to get higher octane with tetraethyl lead in the mix, so that is why it's probably used in most racing fuels.  I agree with Dale, 110 octane ought to be fine for your engine.

Thanks, Jay. I hadn't considered Rocket, even knowing I'm around them at every Drag Week. I'll check them out. I'd consider getting a barrel at DW, if possible, but I know things can get touchy with the law when transporting a drum of fuel, which I'm probably already pushing with the 100 gallon tank in the bed of my F350.

[shady]

So how do the additives you can buy at the speed shop work? or just a waste of money?

[cjshaker]

I would suggest a minimum of 110 octane for 13.0:1 compression ratio.  In 2016, the EMC engine was at 12.8:1, and it made it on 101 at the EMC, but in 2018, with 13.0, I lost my head gasket on the third pull from detonation.  It happened so fast, the pull could not be stopped.  We had tested on 110, and was fine before the competition.  Joe-JDC

Well the Turbo Blue that I get at a pump is rated 110 octane, using the (R+M/2) method. I need to figure out the differences in the ratings. Maybe it'll be just as convenient to fill up a drum at the pump, seeing as it's only a 20 minute drive. Prices were about $9.50 a gallon last Fall, and I imagine race fuel hasn't dropped like pump fuel.

Thanks for the info on your experience, Joe.

[FElony]

...If I have to, I will, but if I'm going to talk to them, I'd at least like to know what I'm after, so's I don't sound stupid....er.

Torco is right up the road from me about 8 or 9 miles. I went in sounding stupid, not because I have so much experience at that, but because I knew I'd get more info if he assumed I knew nothing. And I got a one-hour dissertation! Free!

When I had my stereo/alarm shop, I dreaded the "experts" walking in the front door, because half or more of what they picked up from friends was wrong, and they didn't like it when I didn't agree with them.

The fuel guys deal with a lot of people. Let them sell you what they know will work.

[cjshaker]

The fuel guys deal with a lot of people. Let them sell you what they know will work.

I certainly won't act like I know what I'm talking about, but I do prefer to have some minimum knowledge of what the discussion is about, just so I can understand what I'm being told. But when it comes to what works, I'll rely on the guys here who race and build. They've never steered me wrong, and I always get great advice from them. A salesman is usually the last guy I'll solicit advise from, unless he was also a racer.

[fekbmax]

https://petroleumservicecompany.com/sunoco-supreme-112-octane-race-fuel-54-gallon-drum/


https://petroleumservicecompany.com/sunoco-standard-110-octane-race-fuel-54-gallon-drum/

[cjshaker]

https://petroleumservicecompany.com/sunoco-supreme-112-octane-race-fuel-54-gallon-drum/


https://petroleumservicecompany.com/sunoco-standard-110-octane-race-fuel-54-gallon-drum/

Did some reading on their page, checked out the shipping rates and options under their cart, did the math and figured it came out to $11.36 a gallon after taxes and the cheapest shipping rate. And that's with an initial price that's cheaper than VP and Rocket. It's starting to look like getting it 5-10 gallons at a time and getting my own storage barrel may be the best route after all.

[gdaddy01]

if you have any boat shops close by , maybe check with them . the one close to me get racing fuel in 5 gallon cans .

[Nightmist66]

A good friend of mine running a street driven twin turbo SBF runs BASE fuel. He is making between 12-1300hp. He has good luck with it. He is currently switching to E85, so I will be buying off his remaining stock for my junk. Maybe give them a look.

https://baseracingfuel.com/leaded-race-fuels.html