Confused about NHRA seat requirements...

[cjshaker]

I had planned on adding some racing seats to my Mustang for 2 reasons; one being to shed some unwanted weight, the second being to satisfy NHRA's rule on the seat being braced to the roll bar crossbar, the one that goes behind the seats and that the shoulder belts typically attach to.

Surprisingly, there are very few rules that I can find in the NHRA rule book that covers seats. About the only rule that I can find is the one stating that the seat must be braced to the crossbar. That seems nearly impossible with a factory type seat that has no attaching points on a stock seat back. But I also notice that it seems like a lot of guys just run stock bucket seats (or even bench for that matter), even in some of the quicker 10-11 second cars.

Since I'm right at the 11.50 rollbar requirement point, and my car is only going to get quicker, I wanted to make sure I was legal for tech at Drag Week, which goes by NHRA rules. I'm getting ready to start installation of the rollbar, and I bought a race seat, but the factory seats are so darn comfortable, I hate to switch to something that has almost no padding, especially considering the street miles that are required during Drag Week.

So how do the vintage car guys that retain stock seats get by without complying with the "bracing" rule? And how is it that a bucket or bench seat that doesn't even go above the shoulders (like pre-69 Mustang seats for example) still seems to be okay in most of the classes? Does NHRA just ignore that rule in those classes or ET frames?

[mbrunson427]

Doug, the intent of that rule is to make sure that the seat doesn't recline backward. I think as long as the cross bar behind the seat hugs the back of the seat tight enough you'll be just fine.

[machoneman]

Doug, the intent of that rule is to make sure that the seat doesn't recline backward. I think as long as the cross bar behind the seat hugs the back of the seat tight enough you'll be just fine.

Thta's been my understanding for SCCA racers too. If your shoulder harness is bolted to the crossbar/roll cage, think of it this way. With you strapped in, one can't pitch forward while the seat can't go back if the crossbar/roll cage stops the seat's backside. 

[jayb]

Doug, I always just had my factory Mach 1 seat backed up against the crossbar, never bolted to it.  Never a problem with tech - Jay

[TomP]

Yeah that is all it needs to be. If you are a midget or the main hoop is a long ways back is when you need to think about things. I have seen some terrible stuff that somehow passes tech and shouldn't. Foot long tubes going forward from the crossbar with a small tab bolted to the fiberglass seat... that is a good way to become "Shishka Bob" in a crash.

[cjshaker]

I should have asked this question before spending the money on the seat
I'd prefer to keep the stock seats, for comfort and looks, so I guess I have an expensive seat I don't need...ugh.

Foot long tubes going forward from the crossbar with a small tab bolted to the fiberglass seat... that is a good way to become "Shishka Bob" in a crash.

You know, that is one of the things I really didn't like about that rule! I imagined that small tube and tab being shoved through the rear of the seat and, well, like you described, Tom.

[afret]

I went to aftermarket seats because the Mach 1 highback seats don't work well with shoulder belts.  You really need to make a hole through the back so the belts are at the correct angle.  The best option if you like original Ford seats is to find a pair of the non Mach 1 low backrest seats with headrests. 

The stocker has a pair of those seats and you don't need to have that back support to the crossbar. 




If you go aftermarket, it's simple to add the rear support to the crossbar.  Just make sure there is a big area of reinforcement where the support attaches to the seat to prevent punch through in a crash.

[JERICOGTX]

If you are running a stock seat, it does not need to be attached.

[cjshaker]

Once again, thanks, Earl. I had already planned on making a reinforcement for the rear of the seat, if the brace was required. I was also thinking about the shoulder belts and how they would have to wrap around the sides of the factory high back bucket. So, like usual, I'm gonna have to give this some thought. As much as I want to keep the car as stock as possible, I don't want to compromise my safety either.

[57 lima bean]

       2003 Lucas Nationals,two Stockers broke their bucket seats in the 35-40 year old cars.

[thatdarncat]

This subject has come up before, and I’m trying to remember where I saw it last, might have been on the Facebook Drag Week pages, where usually there are a flurry of tech questions the closer it gets to the start of Drag Week. And yes, lots of other people confused by the NHRA rules too. The main part of the rule book that addresses it I think is under General Regulations, under section 6 Interior, 6.2 Upholstery, Seats. Paraphrasing “...Except as noted in SFI specifications, seats must be bolted with four bolts ( and nuts and washers ) on the bottom and one bolt in the rear into crossbar...” I don’t have the SFI specs mentioned, so I don’t know what they say on the subject.

Quite a few years ago I started to notice a few of my Stock Eliminator friends, whose cars at the time basically had stock seats, start to make seat braces to the crossbar, or tabs to bolt the seat frame to the crossbar if it was already close. I asked and was told NHRA had started to tell them they needed to brace and attach the stock seats per that rule. I think this may be one of those rules where interpretation or enforcement can vary by your division or track, or even individual tech inspector. I say that because since then when the subject comes up I’ve seen lots of people mention they’ve never had an issue with tech, or that they were told if the stock seat is up to the crossbar they’re ok, even if not bolted. So basically then the discussion goes wild and there’s no real consensus. Since then I’ve tried to note some race cars at the track, and it does seem there is a variety of solutions, or no solution. I vowed last year to start taking some pictures, but so far racing season hasn’t started yet up here. As the cars have become faster aftermarket seats have been allowed in Stock Eliminator for a while now, for safety reasons as you noted Doug, and many racers have switched to them, so you’ll have to weigh that call.

[afret]

To use the high back buckets you'll probably have to do like the seat on Don Keen's '69 stocker:



Like others have stated, it's probably best to just store your original seats and use aftermarket seats with the brace.  The brace I have just bolts onto the cross brace and was really easy to install and adjust.

Oh, and if you can fit in the Kirkey skinny seats (15" wide) and use their mounting brackets, the seat adjusters off the original seats can be used and will fit in the original holes in the floor.  You just have to drill the holes in the mounting brackets to bolt the adjusters on.

[AlanCasida]

Here's what I did on my Mustang. I made an extension off the cross bar that rests against the seat back. I also made the seat so that it no longer folds forward. I've taken it two a couple of t-n-t sessions like that but the tech inspection was non existent. I was hoping to take it to their tech/certification day this spring but that was before all the unpleasantness started.
   

[cjshaker]

Kevin, once it hits SFI specs on seats (I'm not exactly sure at what ET/Speed that is, but they're fast cars), then things start getting crazy as you might expect. Tim McAmis has done a couple of videos on the subject, and it gets real involved. For the lower classes, like pretty much anybody here would run, it's pretty simple, and vague at the same time. I'm guessing it is a rule that they'll start pressing harder on as cars are getting so fast now.

Earl, I know the Kirkeys are by far the most popular racing seats, and they're extremely light weight, but wow, from what I've seen of them, they would be hell on the street, especially to somebody like me, that has zero padding..lol

Alan, I remember seeing yours when I asked you about them before. Our seats are pretty different though, and I don't think those ideas would work for me unless I went with the short backs, like Earls car.

I know some things would be considered overkill, but if it weren't for that overkill, I don't think Randy would have walked away from his incident at the Reunion. That was a bad rollover. Safety should always come first, IMO. I don't like the idea of a modified stock seat, especially where the belts wrap around your neck, and the seat back latches on factory seats aren't the greatest anyway. I think I may go ahead with the race seats (they're Sparco Evo seats), and I've been looking at butt pads that can be used to make them more comfortable while on the street. There are lots of options and ideas going that route.

[Posi67]

I'm running the stock seats in my car and all it needed to be legal was a brace down from the cross bar that the seat back rests on. Just prevents you from ending up in the trunk if the seat back fails. High Backs are a problem and like Earl posted, you'd need to go through the seat back about shoulder level.

Where you can and will get in Tech trouble is how and where the belts are mounted to the cross bar or floor. They have to go over the shoulder but also can't have too much of a drop on the back. That should be in the rule book under general regulations. If your belts are not bolted to the cross bar and just wrapped, they will look and how it was done and you have to provided some means for the belts to not slide side to side. All this does depend on where you race and who is in tech of course but better to do it right the first time.